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Bayonet Balancing Idea: Dynamic Movement Angle

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iF1GHTx

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Saturday, May 6th 2017, 8:27pm

Bayonet Balancing Idea: Dynamic Movement Angle

I posted this originally on Reddit, after the May 3rd CTE update. Didn't get much reception from the community; some comments missed my point entirely. I am not sure if my logic is flawed with this suggestion, so I would like to ask individuals on Symthic if this might have some merit when trying to create a model which could help balance bayonet charging.

The original post:
I would like to propose a dynamic angle for the bayonet charge, as the angle will get smaller relative to the total distance traveled. This will allow one to set their initial path with some freedom, but would need to commit to it as their total angle of allowable deviation is being reduced by whatever function the designers deem appropriate.

Miffyli

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Saturday, May 6th 2017, 10:15pm

So in short: Steering speed reduces over time during bayonet charge.

I am not sure how big of a problem bayonet charging is nowadays, but this would at least sound bit more sensible. I figure doing tight turns is harder when you are running faster (in case of charge it is not actually running faster tho, but you get the gist).

(Ps: Love your avatar :D. Took a minute to me figure it out, not from area of physics. Still chuckle occasionally at that term)
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

iF1GHTx

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Saturday, May 6th 2017, 10:53pm

Yes, essentially. It is a model which should provide better freedom and simplicity when balancing the amount of turning radius one would have when charging. Plus, as you said, it does simulate one running faster as the distance is increased from the initial position, thereby making horizontal movements less "impactful".

Mind you, I am unskilled at interpreting code, so I don't know how the integration of this would work if it ends up being considered. Would it be something to time dependent to have implemented into the game?

Ps: Thanks for commenting, Miffyli! When I found that picture I was like, "Man, I have to put this on everything!" LOL ^^ ^^ ^^

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "iF1GHTx" (May 7th 2017, 1:00am)

tankmayvin

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Saturday, May 6th 2017, 11:14pm

I think the CTE changes will fix the remaining frustrations with the stabby charge. Namely panic mashing it and scoring a connecting hit too quickly relative to weapon TTKs because of the damage reduction. Or flying around corners with it.

Your idea sounds even better for dealing with the charging around corners issue though!

Also you're a Jerk :D

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Saturday, May 6th 2017, 11:50pm

Shouldn't be too hard to implement, although like tankmayvin said there might be some more crucial problems with bayonet (especially the panic-bayonet-for-win, if that is still a thing).
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

JSLICE20

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Sunday, May 7th 2017, 12:22am

Quoted from "Miffyli"

(especially the panic-bayonet-for-win, if that is still a thing)

Yeah it's still a thing, and it's the epitome of AIDS in video game form.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

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Quantage

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Sunday, May 7th 2017, 12:28am

Panic-bayonet is still a thing as long as it deals lethal damage when it just activates. I would like to see an actual "charge time" for it to deal full damage.

VincentNZ

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Sunday, May 7th 2017, 12:34am

Hmm, it is just the same as a panic knife, and people kind of adapted to it. At least the bayonet has the potential to be used tactically.

However the implementation in BF1 was surely a source of frustration, yet still a minor issue, considering how often you really die to a bayonet. It was frustrating for the user as well, when you would charge past a guy but still bump into him. The OP's idea is surely well thought out, but it would make guys that are not very proficient with the mouse get stuck on obstacles even more.

I think the idead of implementing was good and immersive, but how they did it was underwhelming. I have no idea how it could have been done better, I likely would have jsut used the bayonet as a front melee attack that deals damage similar to the melee weapons. Still all in all just one of these problems that are rather minor, when you think about it. The amount of kills/deaths due to the bayonet is miniscule, even compared to the melee weapons I guess.

iF1GHTx

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Sunday, May 7th 2017, 1:09am

Quoted from "Miffyli"

(especially the panic-bayonet-for-win, if that is still a thing)


I'm not certain if this is correct, but couldn't there be an increased threshold where the bayonet will not do damage until a certain amount of time, "x", has passed (and this would ofc translate into "y" the distance)? If I recall correctly, there was mention of a "charge up time", but I am not sure if it directly implemented into the game, or is enough right now to eliminate panic-bayonet-for-win.


Quoted from "tankmayvin"

Also you're a Jerk :D


Haha! ^^ :thumbsup:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "iF1GHTx" (May 7th 2017, 7:38pm)

BleedingUranium

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Sunday, May 7th 2017, 1:30am

The wind-up time should be longer, and getting damaged while winding up should cancel the charge; getting hit during the charge proper would not cancel it.
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