Decreasing TTK for all infantry weapons except BAs and shotguns - Page 2 - Battlefield 1: General Discussion

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: Mar 2nd 2017

Platform: PS4

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Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 2:31pm

Didn't they just confirm they were changing hardcore back to 200% damage?

RSC = p2w bestgun. Bet it'll be so much fun getting one-banged by a semi-auto lol.

Quantage

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Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 2:58pm

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

TTK needs to drop across the board to allow for more tactical and strategic depth.

I shall raise you Rainbow six siege, With every single gun can one-shot anyone at any range. IMO TTK wasn't the define factor how a tactical and strategic a FPS is. This can sway a game to be very arcade(TitanFall 2?) or very realistc(R6S and etc).

Splinter315

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Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 3:29pm

I don't think reducing TTK is a good idea the TTK is already low and deceasing the effectiveness of our guns would make the explosives more viable thus making the grenade spam worse.

VincentNZ

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Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 4:24pm

Quoted from "ssssDE"

So you want no-skill-required gun play like in hardcore? The TTK is low enough as it is.

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

TTK needs to drop across the board to allow for more tactical and strategic depth.

Funny enough, most high TTK team shooters like ET, Dirty Bomb or even MAG (PS3) are more tactical and strategic than low TTK shooters like Red Orchestra and Insurgency.

No skill? Where did you get that idea from? You need to look beyond and see that "skill" is nothing that should be tied down to one single factor. Right now, the success of any engagement is mostly determined by your weapon and the engagement range. As most engagements happen within a certain, rather close range, and certain weapons have a rather high TTK you are often undergeared, when playing the Medic, for example. Then again you have weapons that are, what is commonly referred to, as skill-cannons, which can be wielded to great advantage by some players.
That leads to largely diverse playerbase, statwise. I am a rather decent player still, but even high have an accuracy discrepancy to MarbleDuck of 15% or so, I guess with the .35. That is a huge difference, and if you are a worse shot you would be looking at discrepanices of 20% and maybe even more. In BF4 you could offset this by playing smart, positioning, movement, reading the map. So an inaccurate guy, or a guy with average accuracy like me, could still shine. So many playstyles and player levels can be accomodated for.
If I met MarbleDuck, who I want to apologize to, for dragging him into my examples, in BF4, I would have likely been able to take him out a lot of times, simply through positioning and moving. Or I could have avoided him. Right now, the chances are really slim for me. Which I am not particularly bothered by, were it not for the fact that I have many mates that are below me in terms of stats, and would have NO CHANCE to ever beat him, which was totally possible before.

This is a glaring issue, in BF4 the weapon you chose gave you an edge and nothing more, as of now, you are blatantly useless with many guns unless you are particularly accurate, which is really the sole determining factor. At the same time of specializing each weapon and brute-forcing it into a certain small effective range you also force 64 players into engagement distances totally unsuited for these weapons.

Rainbow Six Siege and Insurgency are prime examples where a low TTK is needed. Both have no health regen and are based around 1vs1 engagements, and rather tactical. You might need to deal with several enemies on your own, but you do so separately. With a low TTK you can suprise someone and take him out with minimal damage to your person. So your own accuracy and reflexes are as important as the tactical movement that got you into this engagement.
In BF1, you are dealing with 32 other enemies so it is very likely that you meet more than one at a time. Now we have, on average, a way longer TTK if you are an average player, so if you manage to flank two guys you might not be able to pick them off before they just turn around and kill you, especially if you are not within your efficient range. On the other hand we have some players that are fully capable through accuracy to have the same or even lower TTK as before, creating a giant gap between players.

And I want to make it clear that I do not want CS or RS6-like TTK in this game. But BF4 was in a good spot. This is not only about TTK but equally about effective ranges, engagement distances, and I can not emphasize it more, map design.

Long story short: A change to a lower TTK can level the playing field and allow for more diversity in playstyles through making average aimers relevant.

tankmayvin

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Thursday, April 27th 2017, 1:05am

I went back and gave BF3 and BF4 quick whirls just to see how much was nostalgia and how much was failures in BF1 and honestly - Gunplay in BF3/BF4 aren't really amazing. Nothing like a round of Grand Bazaar to remind you that there are really only 2-3 viable weapons in BF3.

I'm just further convinced that the primary issues in BF1 are shitty maps and a shitty conq scoring system, both of which rewards zerging instead of decisive plays.

sid_tai

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Thursday, April 27th 2017, 1:38am

I do not think the reduction of TTK back to BF4 levels will lead to stagnant gameplay. We did not have stagnant gameplay in BF4. And by that logic the deadliness of BF1's BA should have given us stagnant gameplay in BF1. And we do not have that right now.

@tankmayvin
I think high TTK certainly plays a part in the zerging meta of BF1 because 1 or 2 skilled person does not do enough to break up the zerg. Eg in R6 we never see 2 people covering the same area, aside from tactical concerns, because you do not need 2 person to guarantee a kill. If the enemy is skilled enough he might even kill 2 of you in one fell swoop. The second person would be better off flanking the enemy or covering other routes. I am not saying that R6 is in anyway comparable to battlefield but to demonstrate that lower TTK can make zerging less viable as a strategy, consciously employed or not.

I still remember how rewarding it was when I get an amazing flank of a squad shooting into the meat grinder B flag in Grand Bazaar.

Edit: Also to address the concerns of people running AEK 1900's, I do not believe this could happen due to the new spread mechanics of BF1. However we do have equivalent of BF3 M5k laser sight which is the automatico, with much better spread at the tail end of a burst due to less than half (!!!) spread increase, which is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. But let's not get off topic.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "sid_tai" (Apr 27th 2017, 1:44am)

JSLICE20

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Thursday, April 27th 2017, 1:50am

From what I understand, reducing the TTK up close by reducing the BTK by 1 isn't a feasible option because of how frames work. With this we run the risk of 1 frame kills and nobody likes those. However, it's possible to reduce the TTK at min damage range through reducing BTK by 1.

@Labby

To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

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No Slowdown Data

Source code

AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
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No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

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    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
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    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

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the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

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Atum675

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Thursday, April 27th 2017, 2:39am

If you reduce btk by one, thinking slrs, all slrs are 2 btk which makes the RCS worthless or the RCS is 1 btk which makes picking scout a joke.

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C0llis

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Thursday, April 27th 2017, 2:43am

Quoted from "Atum675"

If you reduce btk by one, thinking slrs, all slrs are 2 btk which makes the RCS worthless or the RCS is 1 btk which makes picking scout a joke.

You know, there are distances outside [max damage range].

A TTK decrease could be as simple as just decreasing damage drop-off (which would also have the benefit of making BF1 guns feel less binary).

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Atum675

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Thursday, April 27th 2017, 3:03am

Quoted from "C0llis"

You know, there are distances outside [max damage range].

A TTK decrease could be as simple as just decreasing damage drop-off (which would also have the benefit of making BF1 guns feel less binary

Quoted from "C0llis"

So basically just buff auto weapons range capabilities.

Atum675 - BF3 Stats

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

No Slowdown Data

Source code

No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

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