Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

  • "sid_tai" started this thread

Posts: 142

Date of registration
: Jun 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 8

  • Send private message

1

Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 2:06am

Decreasing TTK for all infantry weapons except BAs and shotguns

In the trench fighter thread the problem of agency has propped up in the discussion and I think infantry gunplay is a significant cause of the agency problem. High TTK reduces the effectiveness of one infantry player on a blob of them. This also reduces the effectiveness of flanking maneuvers. In light of this, I would like to know you guys' opinions on reducing TTK and discuss the potential side effects of that.

I have already on my mind some ballpark figures that we could use, eg making the MP18 4-7 BTK, and with a dropoff similar to BF4 P90 BTK-1. But the idea is to revert to BF4 level TTK, and the discussion on the concept.

Also changing damage model isn't really foreign to DICE. There was a big patch late in BF4's cycle that changed the BTK, and the LMG patch in BF1 changed the damage model. So suggesting a change in damage model should not be considered a moonshot.

Posts: 203

Date of registration
: Sep 20th 2016

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

2

Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 2:36am

Yep I'm all for it.
Sadly they haven't even got the keyboard working yet, let alone more significant changes.... and we're already reaching a point where servers are emptying out and there's no way to play the game (at least, in my region and at certain times of day) - which NEVER happened in BF4's lifetime. I don't see this game being fixed before it dies.

This post by "Atum675" (Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 4:34am) has been deleted by the author himself (Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 8:08pm) with the following reason: Misunderstood things

Posts: 88

Date of registration
: Oct 28th 2016

Platform: PS4

Location: California

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

4

Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 4:38am

same game just slower
reduce ttk (faster kills)
Wut?

Posts: 51

Date of registration
: Mar 2nd 2017

Platform: PS4

Reputation modifier: 1

  • Send private message

5

Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 4:43am

Go play Modern Warfare Remastered.

No one moves an inch because one M16 3 round burst at 925rpm will put you down 100% of the time at any range with Stopping Power lol.

Posts: 101

Date of registration
: Oct 8th 2016

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

  • Send private message

6

Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 5:31am

Decreasing the close-mid range TTK was the biggest change they made to the gunplay, and throwing that out runs the risk of recreating the same meta of BF3 and 4. I don't know if a game where all the high level players are running around with AEK 1900s would have held interest any longer than BF1.

Posts: 88

Date of registration
: Oct 28th 2016

Platform: PS4

Location: California

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

7

Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 5:55am

Go play Modern Warfare Remastered.

No one moves an inch because one M16 3 round burst at 925rpm will put you down 100% of the time at any range with Stopping Power lol.
How fast a game plays is not based on kill speed alone. It is dependent on all relevant factors to the game. Nobody argues most CoDs play slowly despite the incredibly fast TTK's in them. Nor does anyone assert that CS:GO is an arcade shooter because people can be one-tapped or AWPed from across the map.

Considering the fast player movement speeds of modern Battlefield iterations, as well as the comparably quicker TTK's of previous titles, I doubt that reducing the TTK's for BF1 will slow its pacing down.

Posts: 243

Date of registration
: Dec 2nd 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Nepped On

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 9

  • Send private message

8

Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 9:42am

Decreasing the close-mid range TTK was the biggest change they made to the gunplay, and throwing that out runs the risk of recreating the same meta of BF3 and 4. I don't know if a game where all the high level players are running around with AEK 1900s would have held interest any longer than BF1.
The thing is, BF1 weapons are inherently unique. You have essentially PDWs, DMRs, and PDWs again with inverse spread and much better damage dropoff. Not ARs, LMGs, and Carbines with the BF4 tapfire meta.

I honestly believe this is a thing they should test next in the CTE. Bolt actions are much more lethal, and we have essentially "Diet BF4" weapons to compete with them. If this helps address player agency thing on top of making all weapons much more dangerous at any range, I'm all for giving it a shot.

Wish I had the time to figure out how a -1 BTK could be achieved for every firearm discussed here, with some special attention paid towards the Automatico and Chauchat

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

(1,795)

Posts: 2,489

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

9

Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 10:18am

While I do agree that the BF3/4 gun meta was not perfect, I admired the simplicity of every gun being relevant in most engagements and achieved balance in a certain way.

I do honor your suggestions and would support it, but this is only one half of the necessary steps to give a bit more meaning to the gameplay. With the current meta of super-niche weapons that demand a certain playstyle and/or constant engagemen range it could indeed lead to more obsolete or unusable weapons. And that is far worse than anything in BF3/4, because there every weapon was always usable, some were just not optimal, and everything worked within a set range.

The other half is obviously stuff that does not relate to shooting mechanics at all, and that is exposure time, cover, healt-regen and general map design. BF1's focus made it clear that flanking or tactical/strategic maneuvers or simple flankin is discouraged and that accuracy and the zerg trumps everything.
Stuff like long and broad sightlines and also long exposure time, when doing anything else but zerging adds a lot of the general frustration.

Also I think this might cause shotguns to become obsolete because they become irrelevant range-wise so fast, while the Automatico would greatly benefit. This might increase twitch reflexes skill to be another dominant factor in some ranges.

Just some stuff to think about as well, but I agree with your general idea. TTK needs to drop across the board to allow for more tactical and strategic depth.

Posts: 8

Date of registration
: Oct 5th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

10

Wednesday, April 26th 2017, 1:43pm

So you want no-skill-required gun play like in hardcore? The TTK is low enough as it is.

TTK needs to drop across the board to allow for more tactical and strategic depth.
Funny enough, most high TTK team shooters like ET, Dirty Bomb or even MAG (PS3) are more tactical and strategic than low TTK shooters like Red Orchestra and Insurgency.