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Saturday, April 15th 2017, 12:03am

Auto rotation assist(aimbot) needs to be removed from console.

Hey im Gunjyguy and I love playing BF1 but I dislike the fact that autorotation exists at all for many reasons and I feel its unneeded.


For PC players or console players who just don't know what it is and have not turned it off yet it is an aimbot that snaps to target center mass if you aim near them (miss).

It creates many problems for example, Shot guns Take skill to use as it requires positioning and good aim as you are screwed if you miss but with BF1 auto rotation bad players can snap onto center mass by aiming near someone making them very annoying because you know they just spam aim at people and snap on, The same is true for infantry/carbine variants of snipers especially paired with auto aim and sweet spot (yay reward bad players and make a meme relevant)

Take a quick look at my stats and you will wonder why it even exists if it isn't needed to EXCEL at the game, infact its not even needed if you are inexperienced and struggle you just need to git gud slowdown assist is all that's needed and even that needs tweaking to lower amount of tracking!

It is worth noting no good players use auto aim and if you do you are not seen as good by the top tier players even if you can perform well with the aid of this aimbot, I personally have unfriended people and stopped playing with them over the use of autorotation and sniper usage in particular sure that's a little extreme but that's just me.

Other then lowering the skillgap in public matches it also affects competitive play because as of this moment theres no way to disable auto aim something that was always done in scrims in BF4.

I would also like to point out that some people a particular cancerous segment of the player base will spam aim in and out to abuse auto aim, these are players that the feature of snap assist isn't made for (casuals who honestly will do bad anyway so makes little difference) in saying that its inferior form meaning it shouldn't matter if used against a good player and this is an attitude I have in general to auto rotation usage by public players but at the same time also means that often they only get you because snap aim especially if you are low health as often bad players using this assist will snap to you but be unable to land more then one shot on you especially if you are slide peeking or something also it means snapping to your head when you are behind cover.



Very sorry if I formatted this wrong or this falls into the category of a rant but its something I feel needs addressing.

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Saturday, April 15th 2017, 1:36am

I agree and disagree with various bits of this.


Snap-To AA is bad. Full stop. This compensates for poor skill, rather than a limitation of the hardware.

Slowdown/sticky AA is probably good to have, as the main thing sticks lack compared to a mouse is (truly) being able to "lower your own sensitivity", in the sense that using a mouse lets you both swing around really fast but also make very tiny/precise movements. This actually compensates for the drawbacks of the hardware itself, which is fair.


Super pro tryhard play-to-win competitive players will use AA because that mindset is to use every advantage (and exploit) humanly possible. I definitely support AA being disabled in any sort of competitive/tournament setting (as well as Hardcore).

That said, while AA will likely boost your effectiveness in the short-term, as with any crutch it will be detrimental towards your improving your own skill ceiling in the long-term.
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Saturday, April 15th 2017, 2:10am

Super pro tryhard play-to-win competitive players will use AA because that mindset is to use every advantage (and exploit) humanly possible.

From what I see, the best console players don't actually use aim assist (snap-to, that is).

It can get you to a very high level of play, but there is also a cap to how good it can be. It tends to screw up your target prioritisation and stops you from hitting headshots.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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Saturday, April 15th 2017, 2:27am

Super pro tryhard play-to-win competitive players will use AA because that mindset is to use every advantage (and exploit) humanly possible.

From what I see, the best console players don't actually use aim assist (snap-to, that is).

It can get you to a very high level of play, but there is also a cap to how good it can be. It tends to screw up your target prioritisation and stops you from hitting headshots.


Good to know. That's what I figured about it, but I don't follow high-level play/players enough to be sure of this sort of thing in that context.

Anecdotally, I do feel playing all of BF4 and BF1 without any AA has made me much better at gunplay than I would be if I'd been using it. Pretty damn hard to prove or quantify that on an individual level though.
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Saturday, April 15th 2017, 3:17am

the main thing sticks lack compared to a mouse is (truly) being able to "lower your own sensitivity", in the sense that using a mouse lets you both swing around really fast but also make very tiny/precise movements.

see, this is actually where our opinions diverge, i found that this is actually way harder to do on pc than it is on console, what is ACTUALLY harder on console is recoil control, it's not slowing down that it's hard on a controller, it's being consistent at it while contantly changing directions that is, which is why semi-auto weapon are extremely hard to control with a controller, as if you want to control the recoil of each shot you can't just pull down like you would a 900rpm rifle, on the other hand, mouse aiming is much harder to get slower for single shots due to how massive most mices are, rendering moving of just 1 pixel the mouse without losing accuracy via lower dpi quite hard, and even harder if you need to keep it consistent over 1 direction.

i mean... in the end you still are right because slow-down serves as a counter to over-aiming, but it's the part about being harder to aim slowly on a controller that i'm against, and it also throws off your aim if you base your aiming skills on timing and not visua representation(which counter-intuitively is the best way to be accurate i find... this also reminds i should get back to playing bf1 with a controller, if i wasn't playin ds3 these days)
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bf4
on 13/05/2016
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rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

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Saturday, April 15th 2017, 3:22am

@iota-09

Oh that would make sense. I have next to no (recent) firsthand experience with PC shooters; I played a few a little close to ten years ago, so I can't really speak from experience here.
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Saturday, April 15th 2017, 4:59am

LMAO at unfriending people for using auto aim.

I support its removal, it's way too strong right now, and I've seen a dev acknowledge that. Perhaps it'll be fixed Soon (TM).

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Saturday, April 15th 2017, 5:48am




Quoted


Super pro tryhard play-to-win competitive players will use AA because that mindset is to use every advantage (and exploit) humanly possible. I definitely support AA being disabled in any sort of competitive/tournament setting (as well as Hardcore).

Actually competitive players don't use auto rotation as I explained its turned off for competitive scrims and anyone who uses it and claims to be good is laughed at by the top infantry players.

I play scrims and I know the attitudes of the comp scene I am a tryhard certified pubstomper and I don't use auto aim because I don't need to.


Quoted

Slowdown/sticky AA is probably good to have,

Yes Slow down is fine, something good players have is crosshair placement, we will aim with centre screen before we even ADS I see nothing wrong with slowdown its also used in comp as it doesn't snap to people, mind you I think theres still slight auto aim and excessive tracking but if there is auto aim it isn't like the auto rotation that will snap center mass from a missed shot.



Quoted

From what I see, the best console players don't actually use aim assist (snap-to, that is).

It can get you to a very high level of play, but there is also a cap to how good it can be. It tends to screw up your target prioritisation and stops you from hitting headshots.





Quoted


You are correct but its also an advantage, I have turned on in scrims before just because we couldn't get it turned off on server and other team was for sure using it and it helps so much in 1v1 and also it will snap to the head if you aim at the head (hence why people on console use infantry snipers)

I have heard it makes you miss people by aiming at other then intended target but I have not used auto aim really at all to experience this but I know from COD it did do this for sure.



Quoted

what is ACTUALLY harder on console is recoil control

Relevant https://youtu.be/LGu9pnVHxQg?t=2 Thank god they nerfed the horizontal recoil I used to be able to snipe people with automatico.

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Saturday, April 15th 2017, 5:58am

Soon(TM).

Soon™
:D

---------------------------

Do I like Aim Assist? No, but until I can finally turn the fucking stick acceleration off I have to keep both Slowdown and Auto Rotation on. Close quarters is incredibly frustrating without it because the muscle memory just isn't there. I agree that it's stupidly strong, yet another reason I still have it enabled. Without at least Slowdown, it's fricken difficult to compete just because everyone else's snap aim is just flat-out faster and more accurate since the mechanic literally locks onto a tracks hitboxes. The Auto Rotation snap is something like 0.2s at as much as a 45° angle to the target which is ridiculously fast and extremely forgiving. My suggestion would be to increase the time it takes to snap and decrease the angle of acceptance dramatically.

Aim Assist is a necessary evil for console FPSs. It lowers the skill floor exponentially because it allows even the most terri-bad to manage a kill every now and then which translates to more consumers of the product, thereby increasing the overall profits. At it's heart Battlefield tends to be a casual game with elements that allow it to be moderately competitive, and this is a blend that I particularly enjoy. With Battlefield, a player can choose to doggy paddle along the surface that is the game mechanics or they can choose to dive into the depths that is the game mechanics. This opens the door to really any kind of player who likes FPSs leaving behind a truly diverse community ranging from the uber casual n00b to the experienced tryhard pro; and there's a lot of distance that separates these extremes. This philosophy is probably applicable to other shooters as well, but we'll just leave it at that.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 5 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Apr 15th 2017, 6:29am)


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Saturday, April 15th 2017, 6:25am

Quoted

what is ACTUALLY harder on console is recoil control

Relevant https://youtu.be/LGu9pnVHxQg?t=2 Thank god they nerfed the horizontal recoil I used to be able to snipe people with automatico.


Agreed on this. Nothing in BF1 has high recoil, certainly not the Automatico or BAR. Just like nothing really has bad hipfire, and nothing really has a long reload time (outside a very select few guns, mainly revolvers). And then you have Storm variants on top of this.

While we have fantastic performance difference ranges like the Rem 8 .35, most of these differences usually centre around rate of fire, because that's such a hard cap of a trait. The recoil/spread differences just don't matter all that much in practice, they're all good enough.
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