Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

Posts: 42

Date of registration
: Feb 16th 2017

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

  • Send private message

11

Wednesday, April 5th 2017, 11:02pm

78 rpm is too sluggish for my taste. I prefer to slug it out with a more forgiving shotgun like, any other shotgun. ;) Maybe i'm just salty that you sluggers are making it happen, while my reflexes move at a snails pace. Whenever I accidentally equip that weapon I feel like a shell-less terrestrial gastropod mollusc. :(

Miffyli

Symthic Developer

(6,073)

Posts: 3,642

Date of registration
: Mar 21st 2013

Platform: PC

Location: __main__, Finland

Reputation modifier: 16

  • Send private message

12

Wednesday, April 5th 2017, 11:04pm

@Skanic
@Teh Maged

Please refrain from posting short, borderline meaningless posts (Rule 5)
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

  • "Teh Maged" started this thread

Posts: 22

Date of registration
: Apr 5th 2017

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

  • Send private message

13

Thursday, April 6th 2017, 3:43am

@Skanic
@Teh Maged

Please retrain from posting short, borderline meaningless posts (Rule 5)
Sorry wont happen again.
78 rpm is too sluggish for my taste. I prefer to slug it out with a more forgiving shotgun like, any other shotgun. ;) Maybe i'm just salty that you sluggers are making it happen, while my reflexes move at a snails pace. Whenever I accidentally equip that weapon I feel like a shell-less terrestrial gastropod mollusc. :(
78 rpm is what killed the Model 10 for me. I do however keep falling back on the Slug variant. Tying back on topic. The Model 10 Slug has had more use for me at least over the M97 Hunter. With the Slug I'm actually getting something worthwhile in terms of range. Of course I am giving up in the rpm and the ease of use department. I'm still somewhat shocked by the the small advantage in range the M97 Hunter has to offer :/ I suppose it is like what JSLICE20 pointed out to me. More of a PC vs Console thing.

*edited to stay within rules*

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Teh Maged" (Apr 6th 2017, 3:51am)


Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

(1,327)

Posts: 1,530

Date of registration
: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

Reputation modifier: 12

  • Send private message

14

Thursday, April 6th 2017, 11:28am

I find quite a bit of success with the Sweeper actually. 22 pellets at 7.2 damage per pellet out to 15m is pretty generous. The pellet dispersion is pretty wide at 2.25 (line 700), but it isn't necessary to hit with every pellet at that 7.2 per pellet damage. If 14 pellets hit within 15m, it's a kill; if just 7-13 hit then a single follow up shot will be adequate to finish the target off. I don't know how to calculate the one hit kill distance, but I'm sure

@Zer0Cod3x

or any other Geometry genius can help out with that. ^^

Please, I'm not that good.


In any case, I assume that the spread of the M97 Sweeper follows a cone with an ellipse at the base instead of a circle. Since the vertical and horizontal dispersion is 0.45 and 2.7 degrees respectively, then a = Distance*TAN(0.45) and b = Distance*TAN(2.7) for the ellipse x^2/a + y^2/b = 1.

IIRC the Sweeper has about the same OHK range as the Backbored, only without the benefits of less recoil. It's essentially the ease of use variant.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


Posts: 269

Date of registration
: Jun 21st 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Moscow, Russia

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

15

Thursday, April 6th 2017, 4:21pm

IIRC the Sweeper has about the same OHK range as the Backbored, only without the benefits of less recoil. It's essentially the ease of use variant.
Sweeper is awesome against strafing opponents, Hunter is just a weaker version of Sjogren with bayonet.
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.