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  • "Shalan" started this thread

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21

Thursday, March 30th 2017, 1:41pm

I find the autocannon to be perfectly fine at range, albeit doing less damage. It's certainly easier than having to land all 6 shells with no ricochets at similar distances. Unless, of course, you expect to enter those tedious, drawn-out engagements where you sit behind cover doing absolutely nothing but waiting for shells to resupply (I much preferred BF4's system where they'd resupply in the background and let you continue with your tanking duties without restarting the process). Then you have the eternal self-repair (compared to the nippy Landship's one anyway). It's just the general sluggishness of the A7V I dislike now. After every engagement you need to retreat to lick your wounds, whereas you could be pressing home the advantage in a SS Landship.

Even if the SS Landship is slightly inferior in a 1v1 against an A7V (although your superior skills should easily compensate for that), its anti-infantry superiority more than make up for that.

It's like what was mentioned in an earlier thread on the Light Flanker being OP. A tank's primary function is to kill infantry, which is something you're doing far more than in BF4 where, half of the time, there's an enemy tank/IFV to neutralise first.

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22

Thursday, March 30th 2017, 2:06pm

I find the autocannon to be perfectly fine at range, albeit doing less damage. It's certainly easier than having to land all 6 shells with no ricochets at similar distances. Unless, of course, you expect to enter those tedious, drawn-out engagements where you sit behind cover doing absolutely nothing but waiting for shells to resupply (I much preferred BF4's system where they'd resupply in the background and let you continue with your tanking duties without restarting the process). Then you have the eternal self-repair (compared to the nippy Landship's one anyway). It's just the general sluggishness of the A7V I dislike now. After every engagement you need to retreat to lick your wounds, whereas you could be pressing home the advantage in a SS Landship.

Even if the SS Landship is slightly inferior in a 1v1 against an A7V (although your superior skills should easily compensate for that), its anti-infantry superiority more than make up for that.

It's like what was mentioned in an earlier thread on the Light Flanker being OP. A tank's primary function is to kill infantry, which is something you're doing far more than in BF4 where, half of the time, there's an enemy tank/IFV to neutralise first.
Autocannon is pretty bad vs a scoot and shooter, you're trading less damage every time they pop, fire and pull back. Also arty truck assholes.

Landship repair cycle is great, but it's not fast enough to let you repair under any real fire because of interrupts. I find engagements are usually damage limited moreso than they are magazine limited. I usually want to reposition slightly and repair after a magdump anyway.

Big survivability issue is still the lack of smokescreen - which is an option on the two best solo tanks.

I don't think anyone REALLY thinks the 20mm FT is overpowered since it's fodder for the real tanks. The FT does laughably if there is any sort of competent AT in either infantry or vehicle form.

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23

Thursday, March 30th 2017, 2:58pm

Scoot and shoot isn't really common practice with BF1's maps, save for Amiens. I don't really feel the lack of smokescreen being an issue since I always have the firepower at the ready to deal with threats, instead of needing to run away from a poorly planned advance.

I think there is an argument for the Light FT being OP on Operations, especially for the Attackers as there's usually a 2v1 tank situation. Not to mention the Defender's tank seems to take an age to respawn. If you really believe the FT does laughably against AT in infantry from, I take that as hard evidence you've underestimated it. It's almost small enough to use cover like infantry, and it also has the continuous firepower to kill at HUGE ranges.

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Thursday, March 30th 2017, 3:12pm

Scoot and shoot isn't really common practice with BF1's maps, save for Amiens. I don't really feel the lack of smokescreen being an issue since I always have the firepower at the ready to deal with threats, instead of needing to run away from a poorly planned advance.

I think there is an argument for the Light FT being OP on Operations, especially for the Attackers as there's usually a 2v1 tank situation. Not to mention the Defender's tank seems to take an age to respawn. If you really believe the FT does laughably against AT in infantry from, I take that as hard evidence you've underestimated it. It's almost small enough to use cover like infantry, and it also has the continuous firepower to kill at HUGE ranges.
I don't play operations, I consider it a crappy game mode. I don't do forced head-on combat on a super narrow front as a rule.

You can shoot and scoot on literally every map in BF1 on conq with good positioning.

FT is squishy and it isn't fast. In a conq setting that means it can get flanked or generally put in bad positions. It's target practice for field guns and other tanks. It can't reliably 1v1 field guns unless you've got a splash angle. It's too flimsy to sustain any sort of fire even from infantry so it really only excels when it's got a static playing field and doesn't or can't get pushed on withdrawal. Size isn't relevant given how slow it is and how easy AT stuff is to aim.

No matter how great your uptime is, autocannon or not you can't outkill everything before you take damage, even with two gunners + driver cannon.

There is a very solid reason the A7V utterly dominates the tank meta in the BF1 population. It's not because the community is bad, it's because it works.

The autocannons are NOT balanced to be better than big bore HE as a do everything weapon either.

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Thursday, March 30th 2017, 4:34pm

Ah, well the dynamics change up quite a bit depending on the game mode. I'm personally not a fan of Conquest in BF1, you can tell that the maps were primarily designed around Operations. I also prefer to have a clear objective in front of me, rather than running around the map like a headless chicken.

I think the reason the A7V dominates the tank meta is because of its lower skill ceiling and how dominant it actually was not too long ago.

Also, back onto the LS's superior repair cycle, I find that I can sneak a repair in out in the open after dealing with a threat. I wouldn't dare risk that with the Heavy Tank's repair cycle. And if you were caught napping in an A7V in the open, you wouldn't necessarily have the firepower to deal with the danger.

Anyway, it's quite apparent neither one of us is going to budge. Maybe it's game mode related, maybe it's not.

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Thursday, March 30th 2017, 4:52pm

Ah, well the dynamics change up quite a bit depending on the game mode. I'm personally not a fan of Conquest in BF1, you can tell that the maps were primarily designed around Operations. I also prefer to have a clear objective in front of me, rather than running around the map like a headless chicken.

I think the reason the A7V dominates the tank meta is because of its lower skill ceiling and how dominant it actually was not too long ago.

Also, back onto the LS's superior repair cycle, I find that I can sneak a repair in out in the open after dealing with a threat. I wouldn't dare risk that with the Heavy Tank's repair cycle. And if you were caught napping in an A7V in the open, you wouldn't necessarily have the firepower to deal with the danger.

Anyway, it's quite apparent neither one of us is going to budge. Maybe it's game mode related, maybe it's not.
How does the A7V have a lower skill ceiling than the LS? The autocannons are EZ mode aiming because they have nearly 100% uptime and you can aim by fire finding. They just don't do the same general purpose dmg as a well aimed 57mm.

The LS just needs a team of 2 (ideally 3) people working together to bring all of the extra firepower to bear to make it a meaningful choice. There is literally nothing "skillfull" about the LS. The autocannon is easier/more forgiving than 57mm and the two 57mm are literally identical to the A7s versions.

A7V breakthrough is straight up a reversed SS landship but with a better AT gun.

The FT isn't "high skill" it's just too damn fragile and slow for what it does.

Arty truck is too paper for what it does.

Pre-nerf A7V with smoke + erep was objectively just the most survival vehicle, skill is irrelevant here because players of all skill can take advantage of survivability.

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Thursday, March 30th 2017, 5:11pm

Because it's far easier to let people run into your crosshairs than track a moving target. The Heavy Tank still has the best defensive tools for a casual driver to use to make up for bad positioning and situational awareness. And a 1v1 between a causal SS LS driver and a casual A7V driver will often favour the A7V.

I do enjoy the Heavy Breakthrough Tank, but its AT meta is that it generally takes one less shot to kill another A7V than the other two variants. It's not really worth it. It's the side guns that I appreciate (you might have noticed by now that I'm a bit of a 20mm HE whore). Sometimes I like to drive up to objectives in it and turn the tank sideways and get in a side gun. I usually get about half a dozen kills with it before a blueberry decides to spawn in and drive off in it, but it's mostly for fun anyway.

I believe the FT is far more dependent on positioning and situational awareness than the Heavy Tank, therefore making it a "higher skill" tank. You'll find the highest tank killstreaks on YouTube using the FT, but most players using the A7V (I know that doesn't "prove" anything, but still).

And yes, I agree the pre-nerf A7V had a higher skill ceiling, even though it was casual friendly. That Emergency Repair feature was just incredible along with the Smokescreen.

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Thursday, March 30th 2017, 5:28pm

Because it's far easier to let people run into your crosshairs than track a moving target. The Heavy Tank still has the best defensive tools for a casual driver to use to make up for bad positioning and situational awareness. And a 1v1 between a causal SS LS driver and a casual A7V driver will often favour the A7V.

I do enjoy the Heavy Breakthrough Tank, but its AT meta is that it generally takes one less shot to kill another A7V than the other two variants. It's not really worth it. It's the side guns that I appreciate (you might have noticed by now that I'm a bit of a 20mm HE whore). Sometimes I like to drive up to objectives in it and turn the tank sideways and get in a side gun. I usually get about half a dozen kills with it before a blueberry decides to spawn in and drive off in it, but it's mostly for fun anyway.

I believe the FT is far more dependent on positioning and situational awareness than the Heavy Tank, therefore making it a "higher skill" tank. You'll find the highest tank killstreaks on YouTube using the FT, but most players using the A7V (I know that doesn't "prove" anything, but still).

And yes, I agree the pre-nerf A7V had a higher skill ceiling, even though it was casual friendly. That Emergency Repair feature was just incredible along with the Smokescreen.
I have no idea what that means. The 57mm or 75mm driver nose guns both require tracking moving targets. Hitting moving tanks with 57mm at range is easy because the vehicles are so damn slow.

If you're operating a LS with a competent gunner driver alignment is irrelevant as long as you are angled for him. The field of fire off to the side is massive. You literally just have to sit there while he fires. Convergence and getting dual gunners to focus fire is the tricky part. The big thing the A7V has is that he knows when he is firing vs when he is moving. If you're using the A7V as a pillbox its not really being maximized.

TH landship basically solos any A7V with just the driver and it's pure EZ mode. It just can't farm infantry after. TH is ez mode AT, it's just that gen purpose guns dominate because of the small number of vehicles.

Operations farming with an FT against a dumb team by a single dude on youtube is utterly irrelevant. I have plenty of 80-90 A7V streaks thanks to lemming opposition that just feeds people at the replenish rate of the 57mm. My heavy tank KPM is the same as the #3 FT shitbucket on BF stats. And unlike the premium shitbuckets I can't play the game 14 hours a day.

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Thursday, March 30th 2017, 5:56pm

I meant that killing mobile infantry with the 57mm requires you to place your crosshairs in front of their path and wait for them to run straight into them.

I'm not talking about using competent gunners.

I still think that, in Operations, an FT can move from cover to cover and deal with infantry as it goes. But the bulky Heavy Tank is at the mercy of competent AT Rocket Gunners. The FT doesn't need to rely on poor enemies to advance.

Why should the amount of time you have to play affect your KPM? Unless you mean they have more time to improve at the game and thus their KPM.

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Thursday, March 30th 2017, 6:14pm

I meant that killing mobile infantry with the 57mm requires you to place your crosshairs in front of their path and wait for them to run straight into them.

I'm not talking about using competent gunners.

I still think that, in Operations, an FT can move from cover to cover and deal with infantry as it goes. But the bulky Heavy Tank is at the mercy of competent AT Rocket Gunners. The FT doesn't need to rely on poor enemies to advance.

Why should the amount of time you have to play affect your KPM? Unless you mean they have more time to improve at the game and thus their KPM.
I mean, except that that's exactly the opposite of the way games usually play out. Ops is artificial because you have a very narrow range of cover where the enemy can be hiding and the enemy has no real chance of flanking so it's easier to clear out popular spots.

Conq has a huge amount of flanking.

Competent RGs usually get in 1 shot before dying to a really good A7V, which means you need several RGs firing more or less at once to kill the A7 and the A7 can make effective use of smoke. Also A7V, SC, LS can all carry organic repair monkeys on board, which is a decisive advantage over the FT and truck.

You would expect that someone who does mostly one thing in a game and with a phenomenal amount of time sunk into it has probably figured out every little possible trick they can turn to their advantage. The point was more specifically at that the higher tiers of vehicle players FT isn't actually overfarming the A7V.