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  • "Shalan" started this thread

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: Dec 14th 2016

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1

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 1:39pm

Best Tank Post-TSNP?


Before the latest update (TSNP), the Heavy Assault Tank was widely regarded as the most effective and most versatile tank. It didn't really have a single weakness apart from its fixed turret, but even that is the norm amongst tanks now anyway. Neither its anti-infantry nor anti-vehicle abilities were superlative, but they were each pretty much second best. What was superlative, however, was its survivability.


At release, the Heavy Tank's Emergency Repair had the ridiculous ability to restore 30% of its maximum health every 30 seconds. To put that into perspective, that's about TWO AT Rocket Gun rounds' worth of health that you could freely restore TWICE a minute. Since the AT Rocket Gun is the only potent long-range AT weaponry that infantry can be equipped with, the tank was pretty obviously a monster on the Battlefield.

This was appropriately addressed in the Giant's Shadow update, with the Emergency Repair reduced from 30% to 20%. The new amount had the potential to exactly restore the damage done by either a common AT grenade or a perpendicular 57mm HE shell from an enemy A7V. It was still a very powerful feature, especially in conjunction with the Heavy Assault Tank's Smokescreen. The Heavy Tank stood firm.

Most recently, however, this feature has been reduced from restoring 20% down to the pitiful lows of 10%. It should be noted that all Land Vehicles' Emergency Repairs have been reduced to 10% of the respective vehicle's max health (they were previously at either 30%, 25% or 20% depending on the vehicle), so it wasn't a direct nerf to the Heavy Tank unlike the previous nerf. But this reduction is far more significant because it has passed the threshold of no longer being able to fully restore any damage taken from pretty much any threat on the Battlefield (I consider the minimum threat to be a single AT Rocket Gun/ Light AT Grenade).

In other words, the feature that made the Heavy Tank what it was became little more than a novelty. Now, a smart Heavy Tank driver must retreat to repair after taking any damage of note and give up the ground they had only just won, if they were looking to maintain maximum health. Whereas before, you could swallow up an AT Grenade, kill the thrower, press a button, and continue your advance with full health.

With the Emergency Repair butchered, the new Standoff Assault Tank appeared to be the new top dog. On the face of it, it was a Heavy Tank with a higher velocity main shell and a valuable coaxial HMG. The only trade off, it seemed, was replacing the weakended Emergency Repair for a cool Spotting Searchlight. But it turns out that it's horrible to use on anything but flat terrain, with its main gun wallowing about all over the place when mobile. Not to mention the complete lack of even the basic Track Repair WILL make you a complete sitting duck if you ever find yourself disabled in it.


So was the Emergency Repair right to be reduced to 10% across the board? Were we too accustomed to an overpowered ability? Are tanks better balanced between themselves as well as against infantry now? Is the Heavy Assault Tank no longer the best choice? I'm interested to hear your thoughts.


I'd personally take the SS Landship over it now (although I only play Operations).

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2

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 2:08pm

On the face of it, it was a Heavy Tank with a higher velocity main shell

Actually, the name is misleading. It shares the same velocity as the 57mm AT/ HE at 222m/s. The only difference is that the 75mm HE has lower drag at 0.005 instead of 0.006. I can only see why it is referred to as "high velocity" because the other 75mm HE is on the FT-17 Howitzer whose velocity is a crummy 100m/s.

Solo-heavy armor is the meta, so just choose your pick between the A7V and St. Chamond really. The two useful variants of the St. Chamond (Assault and Standoff) look to be straight upgrades from the A7V Assault though. Isn't it faster than the A7V as well?
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


VincentNZ

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3

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 3:26pm

The gunner is also arguably better, because it has the same angle as the driver and can put pressure on infantry in the regular LOS. That is a step up compared to the A7, where the gunners are very limited.

BeefVellington

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4

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 8:23pm

Emergency Repair was a bullshit ability IMO. You could play far too recklessly with the Heavy Tank before and not be punished for it as much as you would in the Landship for example. I'm fine with E-repair reverting mobility kills with a bit of HP gain but the 30% or even 20% of before wasn't balanced well at all, especially considering the Heavy Tank's versatility and 360 degree angle of attack (assuming all seats filled)

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5

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 10:38pm

I'd say the Saint Chamond Standoff edges out the A7V assault as the go to all-rounder.

It's not as rock steady as a firing platform and is a bit frustrating to drive but the effectively coax MG and spotting thingy more than make up for it.

If you've got a dedicated repair guy I'd favour one of the other two variants to give them some meaningful role outside of wrenching. Of those I prefer the gas tank simply because the death ball chucker is amazing.

Gecko99

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6

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 11:06pm

I'd say the Saint Chamond Standoff edges out the A7V assault as the go to all-rounder.

It's not as rock steady as a firing platform and is a bit frustrating to drive but the effectively coax MG and spotting thingy more than make up for it.

If you've got a dedicated repair guy I'd favour one of the other two variants to give them some meaningful role outside of wrenching. Of those I prefer the gas tank simply because the death ball chucker is amazing.


So you found out how to use it? I love it but basically nothing else about the Gas Assault tank(except maybe the invulnerability to track disables but that's not very significant).
Autoloading 8 .25 extended user.

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7

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 11:15pm

I'd say the Saint Chamond Standoff edges out the A7V assault as the go to all-rounder.

It's not as rock steady as a firing platform and is a bit frustrating to drive but the effectively coax MG and spotting thingy more than make up for it.

If you've got a dedicated repair guy I'd favour one of the other two variants to give them some meaningful role outside of wrenching. Of those I prefer the gas tank simply because the death ball chucker is amazing.


So you found out how to use it? I love it but basically nothing else about the Gas Assault tank(except maybe the invulnerability to track disables but that's not very significant).



Well the airburst makes having case irrelevant and the gas shell is fairly useful for covering retreats: dump a couple along the front where you expect RGs to prone. And yeah, the gas dropper is utterly useless, but I specifically don't want to get into situations where the pigeon is useful, so that's a wash.

Mostly been using the airburst to make shots that were impossible with the traditional HE, namely killing stuff well behind cover since you can bounce the shell over the lip of most rocks/ledges and doing lots of indirect engagements vs vehicles.

I still much prefer the standoff but the gas tank keeps my repair guy entertained.

Zer0Cod3x

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8

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 11:52pm

I specifically don't want to get into situations where the pigeon is useful, so that's a wash.

I actually found the pigeon quite useful in situations where you were on the point, pillaring behind (indestructible) pieces of cover, and there were enemies on the other side, but you didn't want to peek them. Other than that though, the pigeon ability is basically a suicide button.

Standoff is now the current meta tank. The LMG and faster speed is IMO much more useful than the A7V's Emergency Repair.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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9

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 11:55pm

@Zer0Cod3x

Would you know where in the files that all the factors for vehicle speed are located and what they are? I know you dabble in the Data Browser here and there.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
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    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
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        x 1.0
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    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


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10

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 11:59pm

I specifically don't want to get into situations where the pigeon is useful, so that's a wash.

I actually found the pigeon quite useful in situations where you were on the point, pillaring behind (indestructible) pieces of cover, and there were enemies on the other side, but you didn't want to peek them. Other than that though, the pigeon ability is basically a suicide button.

Standoff is now the current meta tank. The LMG and faster speed is IMO much more useful than the A7V's Emergency Repair.


If you're that close some asshole will be sending grenades over that wall back at you though. The bouncy balls let you get kills in a lot of those situations too.

The SC is only faster on the flat. It is utterly awful hill climbing ability and it is not a stable firing platform and so isn't a straight upgrade over the A7V in all circumstances.