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## The C93 is bestgun

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Posts: 3,218

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 1:17pm

@Diavol

Each class has a 449RPM pistol. They are all very much identical besides reload times, deploy times (all except the Frommer have 0.5s), and ammo counts (all except the Frommer have 9 bullets). The reload times with bullets left range from 1.16s - 1.5s and empty reloads from 1.4s - 2.0s. So, you see, there isn't much separating these sidearms from one another. They are all essentially clones that serve the same purpose and are used in the same role: close range spam firing.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

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### My "Contributions"

Up and down. Bounce all around

Posts: 3,100

Date of registration
: Apr 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 1:56pm

@cowsgomoo

The M1911 hipfire is identical to all other sidearms. It's actually worse than all other semis (except Mars) if you include spread increase.

Recoil is pretty harsh too, the only semi with worse recoil (both horizontal and vertical) is the Mars.

Add to that the deploy time that is a bit on the slow side.

IMO the M1911 pays a very harsh price for it's reload (which is good, but compare it with the C93, P08 or pocket pistols and the difference is pretty minor) and 3HK up close.

I do get why people like the M1911, but it's not the god-gun that it's often made up to be. It's a bit like the M1916: high uptime, but beaten by most other guns in a straight TTK race. Use it if you like it, though.

### Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

### Quoted from "Watcher-45"

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

### Quoted from "LeGarcon"

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

Posts: 14

Date of registration
: Mar 3rd 2017

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 2:28pm

### Quoted from "JSLICE20"

Yeahhhhhh...each of the spam fire'ers kills faster that the 1911 below, at, and above 15m. Truthfully the 1911 is only useful in its 3-hit-kill range which is a meager 10m (with all 3 shots needing to be chest shots at 10m to kill). It doesn't have very much utility.
That's not true.
With spam fire I take it you mean the frommer stop, taschenpistole, beretta m1915, and the 1903 hammerless (basically all the 450 rpm sideguns). The spam fire'ers and the m1911 all have near identical TTK's below 10 m give or take 5-10 milliseconds of difference.

Between 10-15m they do have noticably better TTKs but at the cost of needing 5 bullet to kill instead of the 4 for the m1911

Anything above 15m you really have to ask yourself why you are not using your main gun instead.

Your side arm is supposed to be an emergency gun to use in CQC. Fast reload + decent TTK below 10m + only having to hit 3 shots are all reasons why I prefer the m1911. The PO8 and the C93 feel realy weird to me. Maybe that's because I need more practise using them. You can't spam fire them like the 450 RPM guns nor can you do it slowly but accurately like the m1911 because you need to hit enemies 4 times in close range with just 360 rpm.

The m1911 is a nice middle ground between the slow but hard hitting revolvers and the faster but weaker spam firers.

@C0llis

yea you guessed it right I'm a M1916 fan as well . I understand it has an awfully slow TTK compared to other medic rifles but the 26 mag size is so godly in conquest/operations. I tried to get aboard the autoloading .35 or as I call it the always loading .35 hype train but it takes ages to flush out multiple enemies from an objective with that gun.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "cowsgomoo" (Mar 29th 2017, 2:37pm)

Posts: 242

Date of registration
: Jun 21st 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Moscow, Russia

Reputation modifier: 7

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 2:42pm

### Quoted from "JSLICE20"

@Diavol

Each class has a 449RPM pistol. They are all very much identical besides reload times, deploy times (all except the Frommer have 0.5s), and ammo counts (all except the Frommer have 9 bullets). The reload times with bullets left range from 1.16s - 1.5s and empty reloads from 1.4s - 2.0s. So, you see, there isn't much separating these sidearms from one another. They are all essentially clones that serve the same purpose and are used in the same role: close range spam firing.
Well, I was talking mainly about that 0.4s deploy time. With Beretta, Colt and Mauser's deploy time of 0.5s I have to choose between them and FN M1903 via "deploy time vs reload time". That was what I've meant.
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.

Posts: 3,218

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 2:51pm

@cowsgomoo

Faster TTK is faster TTK, I don't know how that can be denied. In the case of needing a sidearm at 15m+: primaries do run out of ammo, so it's nice to have a safety net for when that situation comes to pass.

As for sidearms being restricted to CQB: someone should tell that to the Gasser because that mo'fucker kills in two chest shots out to 22m. He's breakin' da rules.

I speak on a stats basis though because that's what I think matters in discussions like these. Your opinion on the 1911 is perfectly valid, but is statistically not that great in comparison to many other sidearms.

@Diavol

A difference of 0.1s is miniscule; I'm not even sure 60Hz can distinguish +/- 0.1s. Maybe it can, I don't know enough about update rates. Get a stopwatch and try to tap it at 0.1s or less because it is really hard to do.

The Mle 1903 is designed for a different role than the spammers. From 11m - 22m the Mle has a TTK advantage over them, so it's better for killing just outside of close range. Yeah the differences are minor, but they're still there. Reload time is a quality of life aspect; something that really isn't statistically detrimental just like Vrecoil and velocity. All three of these factors can be practically eliminated through practice and smart play, so they can be ignored.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

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### Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2\$ tho

### My "Contributions"

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Mar 29th 2017, 3:19pm)

Posts: 39

Date of registration
: Feb 16th 2017

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 9:05pm

### Quoted from "JSLICE20"

Faster TTK is faster TTK, I don't know how that can be denied. In the case of needing a sidearm at 15m+: primaries do run out of ammo, so it's nice to have a safety net for when that situation comes to pass.

As for sidearms being restricted to CQB: someone should tell that to the Gasser because that mo'fucker kills in two chest shots out to 22m. He's breakin' da rules.
When you say that the other sidearms are faster, people will naturally assume you mean significantly faster. If it is insignificantly faster then it is not worth mentioning, so the fact that you mentioned it implies that it is significant. 5-10ms is not significant.

People are predisposed to overpay for safety nets. Insurance being a good example of this, the reason that it is such a profitable industry is that: "changes in the probability of gains or losses do not affect people’s subjective evaluations in linear terms."(1) The amount of times I've needed a sidearm in CQC vs as a replacement primary is probably more than 50 to 1.

### Quoted from "JSLICE20"

A difference of 0.1s is miniscule; I'm not even sure 60Hz can distinguish +/- 0.1s. Maybe it can, I don't know enough about update rates.
doesn't 60hz = 16.667ms between updates? If so you can get about 6 updates with 0.1s. Now, there are other things than just the tickrate that determine the relevant level of granularity.

1. https://www.behavioraleconomics.com/mini-encyclopedia-of-be/certaintypossibility-effects/

Posts: 222

Date of registration
: Oct 30th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 6

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 10:15pm

The TTK charts are not 60 hz though so they are quite misleading making the ms difference much bigger.

Posts: 242

Date of registration
: Jun 21st 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Moscow, Russia

Reputation modifier: 7

Wednesday, March 29th 2017, 11:05pm

### Quoted from "JSLICE20"

A difference of 0.1s is miniscule; I'm not even sure 60Hz can distinguish +/- 0.1s. Maybe it can, I don't know enough about update rates. Get a stopwatch and try to tap it at 0.1s or less because it is really hard to do.
Well, if my math skills are not that bad, 0.1s = 100ms, this is a half from 200ms average young human response time, good players have even smaller value, so while it still barely noticeable - it CAN have a huge impact on winning a firefight. However, in practice there are so many factors, so I agree that this difference is close to irrelevant. But it still affects total TTK, so sometimes you can shoot the lethal bullet a couple of ms faster before enemy shoots his at you.
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Diavol" (Mar 30th 2017, 11:33am)