Well, until we see the stats, this might be a bit hasty, but 120 bullets with a good ROF do have an appeal in a game where the suppressive guns have rather limited magazines. If you compare it to the previous games of the franchise

But honestly what is up with all the hate nowadaysy for everything that is not symthic? We have a history of bashing youtubers, insulting battlelog forum users and calling reddit dumb bastards. Sometimes I feel we are like the very exclusive Mar-a-Lago here, but let us face it, we can all dig up a hundred posts that we should be ashamed of posting on the internet, and remember who owns Mar-a-Lago.

MG15 and lewis supressive have "small mags"?

If you're throwing bullets in someone's direction you're going to eat sniper fire, HE or just plain old get flanked and shot well before you can dump that mag with the overheating mechanics.

This game simply doesn't effectively model volume fire and movement because dying doesn't matter and infantry are pro athelete ninjas. Supression is great, but not as great as killing and all of the MG15s can throw out as much supression as you'd ever need.

I know people like to be angry pitchfork wielding villagers but all it takes is a simple look at key stats that everyone understands;

Lets compare the Hellriegel Defensive to an LMG which it can allegedly replace, the MG15 Suppresive.

Hellriegel vs MG15 Suppresive
Damage: 5 -8 vs 5 - 6
Bullets till overheat: 40 vs 35
ROF: 650 vs 500
Capacity :120 vs 200
Velocity: 380m/s vs 870m/s
V.Recoil: 0.28 vs 0.32
H.Recoil: 0.38/0.38vs 0.35/0.35
FSM: 2x vs 1.8x

We do not have the exact stats for the Hellriegel Defensive, but I reckon that everything mentioned here will remain unchanged, save for Mag.

Not to mention the MG15 is a support gun meaning self ammo refill is a thing. This isn't even going into detail with the ADS base spread and the fact that the MG15 has negative spread. There is no way on earth that the Hellriegel Defensive can touch the MG15 (or any other LMG for that matter) at 40m+

So no, its not going to make LMGS useless, RIP Support as one guy put it.

The 20 Ammos one is hilarious. Its like they never used another LMG other than the BAR.

People still thinking the hellriegel is op is hilarious. I tried using it because I like the idea of it and quickly realized that its horizontal recoil makes anything other than short bursts useless. Therefore it is relegated to a flanking role or ranges below 30m.

The 'no reason to use the base hellriegel' one is the closest one to a legitimate concern. It could very well outclass the factory version but I am not sure of that so far.

Quoted from "Dantheminigunfox"

I know people like to be angry pitchfork wielding villagers but all it takes is a simple look at key stats that everyone understands;

Lets compare the Hellriegel Defensive to an LMG which allegedly can replace, the MG15 Suppresive.

Hellriegel vs MG15 Suppresive
Damage: 5 -8 vs 5 - 6
Bullets till overheat: 40 vs 35
ROF: 650 vs 500
Capacity :120 vs 200
Velocity: 380m/s vs 870m/s
V.Recoil: 0.28 vs 0.32
H.Recoil: 0.38/0.38vs 0.35/0.35
FSM: 2x vs 1.8x

We do not have the exact stats for the Hellriegel Defensive, but I reckon that everything mentioned here will remain unchanged, save for Mag.

Not to mention the MG15 is a support gun meaning self ammo refill is a thing. This isn't even going into detail with the ADS base spread and the fact that the MG15 has negative spread. There is no way on earth that the Hellriegel Defensive can touch the MG15 (or any other LMG for that matter) at 40m+

So no, its not going to make LMGS useless, RIP Support as one guy put it.

The 20 Ammos one is hilarious. Its like they never used another LMG other than the BAR.

People still thinking the hellriegel is op is hilarious. I tried using it because I like the idea of it and quickly realized that its horizontal recoil makes anything other than short bursts useless. Therefore it is relegated to a flanking role or ranges below 30m.

The 'no reason to use the base hellriegel' one is the closest one to a legitimate concern. It could very well outclass the factory version but I am not sure of that so far.

Hellriegel is a turd IMO. Why would you ever use it when you have the various Automaticos to chose from?

It's got the same dynamic vs automatico as 1916 has vs the 5 round slrs. Yeah it's got lots of ammo, but when you're dying in typical 1v1s in your engagement bracket most of the time all that ammo doesn't do you any good.

And it's really punishing for the Hellriegel since it's CBQ and thus you've got no chance to cover as a general rule.

Quoted from "tankmayvin"

Quoted from "Dantheminigunfox"

I know people like to be angry pitchfork wielding villagers but all it takes is a simple look at key stats that everyone understands;

Lets compare the Hellriegel Defensive to an LMG which allegedly can replace, the MG15 Suppresive.

Hellriegel vs MG15 Suppresive
Damage: 5 -8 vs 5 - 6
Bullets till overheat: 40 vs 35
ROF: 650 vs 500
Capacity :120 vs 200
Velocity: 380m/s vs 870m/s
V.Recoil: 0.28 vs 0.32
H.Recoil: 0.38/0.38vs 0.35/0.35
FSM: 2x vs 1.8x

We do not have the exact stats for the Hellriegel Defensive, but I reckon that everything mentioned here will remain unchanged, save for Mag.

Not to mention the MG15 is a support gun meaning self ammo refill is a thing. This isn't even going into detail with the ADS base spread and the fact that the MG15 has negative spread. There is no way on earth that the Hellriegel Defensive can touch the MG15 (or any other LMG for that matter) at 40m+

So no, its not going to make LMGS useless, RIP Support as one guy put it.

The 20 Ammos one is hilarious. Its like they never used another LMG other than the BAR.

People still thinking the hellriegel is op is hilarious. I tried using it because I like the idea of it and quickly realized that its horizontal recoil makes anything other than short bursts useless. Therefore it is relegated to a flanking role or ranges below 30m.

The 'no reason to use the base hellriegel' one is the closest one to a legitimate concern. It could very well outclass the factory version but I am not sure of that so far.

Hellriegel is a turd IMO. Why would you ever use it when you have the various Automaticos to chose from?

It's got the same dynamic vs automatico as 1916 has vs the 5 round slrs. Yeah it's got lots of ammo, but when you're dying in typical 1v1s in your engagement bracket most of the time all that ammo doesn't do you any good.

And it's really punishing for the Hellriegel since it's CBQ and thus you've got no chance to cover as a general rule.

Yea, honestly I wouldn't even go for the automatico, I would just go with a shotgun, usually the 12G or Sjogren. Anythingabove 20m, its Ribeyrolles 1918, MP18 or Model 10 Slug. Mostly MP18 as the Experimental got buffed significantly and the reticle fix really makes headshoting with the trench version quite easy (sort of :])


I use it sometimes because way before BF1 launched, I really wanted it to be in the game. Atthe time I envisaged it being an analogue to the CBJ. Ofcourse the actual game had significantly different balance than the BF4 style model I was anticipating at the time.

It still has some value as I play a lot of Rush and it served me well when assaulting clustered bunkers such as Argonne or Grappa. This new Defensive variant may actually become a favourite of mine as the bipod makes it ideal for defensive play, especially when defending on Rush.

Remember when the Hellreigel had 0.448 total horizontal recoil, a 1.8 FSM? I'm glad I got my service stars then.

Anyway, atleast Hellreigel defensive is a sexy, interesting variant unlike the Huot optical. Losing the bipod and the tremendous spread and recoil decrease compared to the LW Huot--I'm assuming-- seems like it will make the optical variant pretty useless. Would you trade all that for marginal better ADS moving spread?

Not surprised.

People think SMGs are super LMGs when it's the other way around.

They think SMGs do more damage than LMGs (lolwat).

They think SMGs are more accurate than LMGs (more wat).

Quoted from "tankmayvin"

It's got the same dynamic vs automatico as 1916 has vs the 5 round slrs. Yeah it's got lots of ammo, but when you're dying in typical 1v1s in your engagement bracket most of the time all that ammo doesn't do you any good.

Would it possibly outclass the Ribeyrolles or the MP18 Optical? I don't play a ton of assault, but I do feel anecdotally that the Ribeyrolles is top tier since it can reach out to mid-range. With an optical sight+bipod, I expect the Hellriegel to be a straight upgrade to the MP18 because of it's increased versatility (bipod+drum) and faster TTK.