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NoctyrneSAGA

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71

Thursday, April 13th 2017, 2:16am

Fighter cannons already do something like 14 damage per shot against infantry at a very high rate of fire with negative spread increase.

It's fairly easy to strafe infantry. Sure you don't get AoE damage like with the darts but that's to be expected with these cannons.
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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Oscar

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72

Thursday, April 13th 2017, 4:15am

Fighter cannons already do something like 14 damage per shot against infantry at a very high rate of fire with negative spread increase.

It's fairly easy to strafe infantry. Sure you don't get AoE damage like with the darts but that's to be expected with these cannons.

I believe it's a 6HK (so 16-17 minimum) from experience, but I should look at the files whenever I can to be sure.
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I find majority of the complaints I hear about this game somehow never appear in my games.

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73

Thursday, April 13th 2017, 4:34am

Fighter cannons already do something like 14 damage per shot against infantry at a very high rate of fire with negative spread increase.

It's fairly easy to strafe infantry.


Provided they are kind/stupid/bad enough to stand still in a hail of bullets for long enough for that negative SIPS to make the shots hit them.... It might even be effective. Otherwise, not so much.

NoctyrneSAGA

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74

Thursday, April 13th 2017, 4:38am

That logic doen't apply exclusively to the Fighter guns.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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75

Thursday, April 13th 2017, 4:41am

Indeed it doesn't, which is a problem for ranged LMGs too.

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76

Thursday, April 13th 2017, 5:01am

@Oscar

Looking at the Sopwith Camel Fighter:

it uses either the Twin HMG or Twin TuF HMG.

The Twin HMG does 14.5 damage while the Twin TuF HMG does 20 damage. I think the Dogfighter uses the Twin HMG.

Unrelated:

Here's the dispersion for the Twin and TWin TuF HMG:

Source code

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2
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WeaponDispersion::WeaponDispersion
        StandDispersion::FiringDispersionData
            MinAngle 0.0
            MaxAngle 1.0
            IncreasePerShot -0.1
            DecreasePerSecond -1.0
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.
For 'skill cannons,' that is.

Nope, Aim Assist or bust.

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Apr 13th 2017, 5:16am)


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77

Thursday, April 13th 2017, 5:27am

It's far, far worse on the fighter guns. I just took a few minutes to record DF cannon fire and frame-by-frame it.
The first 15 bullets in a burst are useless, giving your target over a full second of warning to start dodging the bullets that might actually hit them.
I actually kill a few people with these things and doing this slow-mo footage makes me wonder how I ever even got one.

Edit: The numbers above (thanks jslice) suggest that the 10th bullet should be fully accurate, so I re-watched the footage and it's definitely not. I suspect that the dispersion you have pasted there is not the one that's actually used.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "CaptaPraelium" (Apr 13th 2017, 5:36am)


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78

Thursday, April 13th 2017, 6:17am

It should be noted that calculating negative spread isn't as easy as just dividing the max spread by the min spread, there's a separate formula altogether to determine it:

First Shot SIPS Multiplier * (60 / RoF)

The RoF for the Twin HMG is 960, but I don't know how to find the first shot spread increase multiplier.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.
For 'skill cannons,' that is.

Nope, Aim Assist or bust.

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Zer0Cod3x

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79

Thursday, April 13th 2017, 9:50am

crappy BF4 stealth jet meta
What was wrong with that? Besides the size of the planes being too unbalanced.

BF4 Stealth Jet meta: SJ kills other SJ, then kills heli(s), then proceeds to wait around for about a minute doing chip damage to vehicles before repeating the same process. It's repetitive, uninteresting, and boring.

---

With regard to planes in general: the biggest problem with planes at the moment is not that they're unbalanced - a squad of infantry can quite easily shut down a plane - but it's that they're incredibly frustrating and annoying to play against as infantry. You don't get killed by one and think, "wow, he outplayed me," you think "wow, I just got killed by something that I could not have predicted in any way."

The Trench Fighter epitomises this frustration. They can easily OHK you, they're agile and thus hard to predict, and they have a small frame, which in addition to their speed, makes it hard to return fire against.

Until DICE can actually make infantry vs plane combat fun and engaging, I'd honestly support simply removing planes entirely from the game.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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80

Thursday, April 13th 2017, 10:34am

BF4 Stealth Jet meta: SJ kills other SJ, then kills heli(s), then proceeds to wait around for about a minute doing chip damage to vehicles before repeating the same process. It's repetitive, uninteresting, and boring.


Except I'm sure the weakened Trench Fighter in the CTE will still be able to regularly kill infantry with some well placed darts. Just not to the ridiculous extent as current vanilla where I almost feel apologetic every time I get a kill in one, because it is just so easy.