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C0llis

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21

Saturday, March 18th 2017, 12:22am

One other "problem" that I haven't seen anyone mention: you don't actually need grenades. You could remove them and the game would still largely work the same way. You couldn't do the same with many of the ammo based gadgets, say, the rocket gun. You don't actually_need_ to have grenades avaliable multiple times every life, even when support players aren't around.
I cannot live without smoke grenades, especially as assault.


And I mainly run light AT, incendiary or gas as assault and I do fine (I'm not saying this like "hurr-durr, y u need smoke?", I'm saying it more like "you can be effective as assault without smoke").

What I'm getting at is that grenades aren't central to any class's role and they aren't particularly unique in what they do. You don't need grenades to kill infantry, push the enemy out of a position, advancing on a flag or taking out a vehicle. You can do those things with guns and gadgets. Grenades just make it easier.

Can you win as attackers on operations without smoke grenades? Yes, but it's harder. Etc. etc.

I'm not advocating that grenades should be removed, I'm just trying to get people to think outside the box of "Of course you need easy access to grenades, it's a military FPS!". We don't _need_ auto-replenishing grenades (of any type) every [insert arbitrary time] seconds, but we do need reasonable access to core gadgets, like spotting flares, rocket guns, med bags, revives, ammo bags, etc.

Does the little pouch still give you gadgets like rocket gun ammo, big AT grenades, rifle grenades and cross bow grenades?
Yes, it does. AFAIK the little pouch is currently unchanged other than it no longer resupplying grenades.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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: Mar 2nd 2017

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22

Saturday, March 18th 2017, 3:18am

One other "problem" that I haven't seen anyone mention: you don't actually need grenades. You could remove them and the game would still largely work the same way. You couldn't do the same with many of the ammo based gadgets, say, the rocket gun. You don't actually_need_ to have grenades avaliable multiple times every life, even when support players aren't around.
I cannot live without smoke grenades, especially as assault.


And I mainly run light AT, incendiary or gas as assault and I do fine (I'm not saying this like "hurr-durr, y u need smoke?", I'm saying it more like "you can be effective as assault without smoke").

What I'm getting at is that grenades aren't central to any class's role and they aren't particularly unique in what they do. You don't need grenades to kill infantry, push the enemy out of a position, advancing on a flag or taking out a vehicle. You can do those things with guns and gadgets. Grenades just make it easier.

Can you win as attackers on operations without smoke grenades? Yes, but it's harder. Etc. etc.

I'm not advocating that grenades should be removed, I'm just trying to get people to think outside the box of "Of course you need easy access to grenades, it's a military FPS!". We don't _need_ auto-replenishing grenades (of any type) every [insert arbitrary time] seconds, but we do need reasonable access to core gadgets, like spotting flares, rocket guns, med bags, revives, ammo bags, etc.

Does the little pouch still give you gadgets like rocket gun ammo, big AT grenades, rifle grenades and cross bow grenades?
Yes, it does. AFAIK the little pouch is currently unchanged other than it no longer resupplying grenades.
I've switched to smoke for all classes but Scout. Smoke is absolutely, incredibly useful for taking middle points as Assault, where every other class out-ranges you. For example, you can stay mobile on C on Argonne (and not just put your belly to the dirt behind the flag, praying) and avoid grenades or mortars, and since you're behind the smoke, any enemy charging through the smoke gets blinded and is easy pickings.

I used smoke for the first time about 2 weeks ago. I haven't even thought about taking it off since then.

NoctyrneSAGA

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23

Saturday, March 18th 2017, 9:44am

Does smoke cover a large enough area right now? Right now it's approximately a 7m radius.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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: May 16th 2012

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24

Saturday, March 18th 2017, 12:36pm

Does smoke cover a large enough area right now? Right now it's approximately a 7m radius.


If only we had a community test environment to obtain information about this...

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25

Saturday, March 18th 2017, 12:44pm

Does smoke cover a large enough area right now? Right now it's approximately a 7m radius.
Not really. You can use it to cover chokepoints, disrupt enemy lines of sight, and throw it at your feet when running away from an enemy.

With 2 grenades it was much better at covering large areas, but not so much now.

C0llis

Up and down. Bounce all around

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26

Saturday, March 18th 2017, 1:00pm

Does smoke cover a large enough area right now? Right now it's approximately a 7m radius.
It could be slightly larger. I would like to see 9 m radius tested in CTE.

RE: smoke: that you can see out of smoke now is very welcome, it makes smoke much better for defensive use because you don't blind the people hiding in the cloud.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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: Dec 20th 2016

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27

Saturday, March 18th 2017, 1:08pm

My main concern is indeed the detonation timers, particularly with the frag grenades. They should just have a 3s timer to make them more of an area denial instrument rather than a direct damage weapon.

Another method of helping the issue is the addition of a second layer of player input. Basically, when one presses the Grenade key, instead of the grenade beyond thrown with one click, it should bring up the grenade and then be thrown. This layer of perceived chunkiness would limit the 'default' response meta of grenade usage, something that even experienced players such as myself have trouble resisting.

Yet another alternative or cumulative addition would be a greater delay between player input and the grenade being thrown. This is not something particularly ground breaking as it is the case in previous BF titles, including BF4 and Bad Company 2. Throwing a grenade should be a tactical choice and not something that can be done with little consequence. A good way of doing this is making weapons redeploy after a grenade throw, though this runs into the issue of varying draw times on primary weapons.


The Assaults HEAVY AT NADES should be looked at as currently there is a tendency to use them in anti infantry roles, which I frequently employ myself. There should either be a delay between throws (not ideal as reduces their AT Potential with their current damage model) OR have them do very little damage to infantry. Really think that AT weapons such as the Rocket gun and AT Nades should not be able to deliver a full 100 damage.

With all the being said, there is simply no avoiding grenade spam on chokepoints such as Argonne or Vaux which is further exacerbated in larger game modes, particularly CQ and GRAND Operations. This is why many PC Locker/Metro servers simply disabled the majority of explosives despite the stringent timers on explosives gadgets and grenades.

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28

Sunday, March 19th 2017, 1:05am

A persistent timer is one that ticks while you are dead. The BF1 Mortar uses this.

The BF4 UCAV did not use a persistent timer. It had a set delay before the weapon was usable per spawn.

You are also not punished for holding on to your grenade. What penalties are there? Do you lose health? Lose mobility?

What is the punishment for not throwing as soon as it is ready?


You don't really get punished, like the OP suggests, but I think he isn't far from the truth. The mechanics of grenades now is that you don't need to resupply them, they are very strong - as discussed in few other posts in this thread, easy to throw, etc. A player will most definitely try to throw one as soon as it is ready. There is no downside - you can deliver them pretty far, the map is there with semi-stationary red dots ever present, the choke points are visible, so are the usual hiding spots all along the front line. As soon as one is ready, it is going to be thrown, whether it s a seasoned player or an average grenade monkey we're discussing.

So, why not throw it as soon as it is ready?

NoctyrneSAGA

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29

Sunday, March 19th 2017, 1:13am

So, why not throw it as soon as it is ready?


Totally going to be a well-spent grenade chucking it in the middle of nowhere.

And if I wait to throw it at an enemy, does it count as wasted?
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

  • "sid_tai" started this thread

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30

Sunday, March 19th 2017, 2:45am

I am not referring to chucking a grenade at nowhere, but at the next engagement. With more limited grenade availability, you might want to think twice about throwing it during the next engagement or leaving it for future ones. And because I get on the objective often, my grenade inventory does not stay at 1 for very long with the current auto-regen system.