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## Grenade spam issue and suggestions

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Posts: 3,100

Date of registration
: Apr 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Friday, March 17th 2017, 10:58am

### Quoted from "tankmayvin"

I'm still trying to understand why dying to grenades is a problem.

Dying to grenades isn't a problem in itself. There are currently two problems with grenades:

1: spam in chokepoints. This is mainly map and resupply dependent and what the resent changes have sought to address.

2: "spam" in engagements. Or rather, commodification of grenades. They are thrown so quickly, blow up so quickly after landing, and are currently available for most of your engagements so grenades have effectively become free DPS. This is a power creep and it's not very fun to have to dodge one grenade almost every engagement. Not to mention that many engagements now routinely involving the exchange of grenades feels extremely silly.

One other "problem" that I haven't seen anyone mention: you don't actually need grenades. You could remove them and the game would still largely work the same way. You couldn't do the same with many of the ammo based gadgets, say, the rocket gun. You don't actually_need_ to have grenades avaliable multiple times every life, even when support players aren't around.

If any thing were to be given ammo regen it should be gadgets, like k-bullets and the rocket gun, which players need to cope with the game (vehicles). We already have it for boxes and revives - as it should be, but not for vital AT gadgets? You don't really need grenades to be able to deal with anything, they just make it easier.

I don't mind magical auto-resupplying grenades, but likewise I wouldn't mind if they only came back through ammo crates/pouches, since they aren't vital gear.

### Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

### Quoted from "Watcher-45"

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

### Quoted from "LeGarcon"

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

Posts: 171

Date of registration
: Jan 8th 2016

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

Friday, March 17th 2017, 11:04am

Headless chickens will keep running and dying ftw. For what it's worth now they are less vulnerable, as they will hide beneath a rock instead of sitting by a crate the support guy conveniently placed by them. Not that their presence is relevant in the grand schematics, but stuff compounds when campers of all colors of the rainbow get grenades for free resulting in Chinese new year all day long.

I say cut the blast sphere/damage potential. Watch what happens. I don't particularly like auto-resupply. To me bf4 has it perfect. You can't resupply grenades (well you can, but you won't), so every one of them is golden, while you're alive. You learn to economize, prioritize, pick up other's gear to use their grenades. It isn't hard to understand where they come from with arcadey auto resupply... but yeah, it's a small issue, comparing to how strong they actually are.

Posts: 3,291

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Friday, March 17th 2017, 12:14pm

### Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

The absurd throw speeds and dumb impact-based timers are far more significant issues than the resupply stuff everyone wants to talk/rant about.

The subject of this thread was the 'spam' issue which I still retain isn't really an issue unless one fancies the 'cluster-fuck.' The attributes of the grenades themselves are irrelevant to this discussion, but since it has already been derailed into that, we may as well include it now.

The thing with frags is that they detonate within a short time after their momentum stops, so the fuse varies depending on the angle of which it is thrown at. BF4's frag just detonates after its time to live expires (which is 3s). BF1's frag TTL is 8s, which will NEVER expire, combined with the near instant detonation once completely stopped. The max angle you can throw a BF4 frag is 55° for it to detonate once hitting the ground because that's when the 3s is up. With a much longer time to live of 8s, BF1's frag can be easily thrown at >55° - 90° and still have plenty of TTL meaning you can throw it straight up and it will hit the ground before expiring. Also, when throwing at an angle off of higher elevation it will still manage to hit the ground. I don't think the higher TTL is a bad thing, but the fuse time after stopping could definitely be increased. Unfortunately I don't know what that time is or how to find it in the files, so I cannot provide a suggestion.

Surprisingly, BF4's frag does 112 blast damage within 1.5m and BF1's does 100 blast damage within 1.75m; both have a max radius of 7m, so strictly referring to damage potential BF4's frag is better. It's just that there is ample time to escape a BF4 frag when it's thrown relatively close up, but if that same frag is thrown at you from 40m away at a 45° angle and lands at your feet you'll die no question.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

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### My "Contributions"

Posts: 255

Date of registration
: Jun 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

Friday, March 17th 2017, 11:24pm

### Quoted from "JSLICE20"

The subject of this thread was the 'spam' issue which I still retain isn't really an issue unless one fancies the 'cluster-fuck.' The attributes of the grenades themselves are irrelevant to this discussion, but since it has already been derailed into that, we may as well include it now.

@JSLICE20

I think attributes of grenades do lead to grenade spam because how fast you could get it out. In BF4 you need to pull the fuse and I definitely needed to think twice before clicking the grenade button because if the enemy rushed me I would be dead. In BF1 the throw time is so short that the enemy literally does not have enough time to rush you before you finish throwing the grenade and have your weapon ready again. There are fewer windows of opportunity for you to get a grenade out in BF4. So far this has been my experience.

### Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

For other classes? Probably not so much. Sure, you could argue that technically, grenade spam for other classes has been reduced, but in practice, since you don't have a constant self-provided source of ammo, and teammates are generally bad, I'd say the frequency of grenade usage both pre-patch and post-patch are about the same. Of course, this becomes less and less accurate the better and more aware your teammates are, but good luck finding those teammates.

@Zer0Cod3x

Again, from my experience post-patch, I find that I get more grenades when I am not playing support. Anecdotal evidence: I was playing Empire as medic and about to attack C. I saw red dots on the minimap so I chuck my impact in there. Then I would do some medic things aka shooting, dancing around rocks, reviving, healing, look around spotting people from D. Then after I got on C point I would occupy a tactical location to prepare for incoming defenders. When the defenders were here, ah-ha I got another grenade.

I have quite a few similar experience across different maps post-patch, not playing support. Pre-patch I would not have a grenade available. I am not saying we should go back to pre-patch, because that was way worse. But I think timers should be increased even more. And in compensation I think we should be able to carry more than 1. Most obvious use case is smoke.

### Quoted from "C0llis"

2: "spam" in engagements. Or rather, commodification of grenades. They are thrown so quickly, blow up so quickly after landing, and are currently available for most of your engagements so grenades have effectively become free DPS. This is a power creep and it's not very fun to have to dodge one grenade almost every engagement. Not to mention that many engagements now routinely involving the exchange of grenades feels extremely silly.

@C0llis

Exactly how I feel. I have no problem dying to a grenade when I am cornered. The problem is that a significant part of gameplay has turned into dodge-grenade.

### Quoted from "C0llis"

One other "problem" that I haven't seen anyone mention: you don't actually need grenades. You could remove them and the game would still largely work the same way. You couldn't do the same with many of the ammo based gadgets, say, the rocket gun. You don't actually_need_ to have grenades avaliable multiple times every life, even when support players aren't around.

I cannot live without smoke grenades, especially as assault.

### Quoted from "C0llis"

If any thing were to be given ammo regen it should be gadgets, like k-bullets and the rocket gun, which players need to cope with the game (vehicles). We already have it for boxes and revives - as it should be, but not for vital AT gadgets? You don't really need grenades to be able to deal with anything, they just make it easier.

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,588

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Saturday, March 18th 2017, 12:11am

I do not see why we need passive regen at all. Even in a game like BF4 where you would have up to 8 armored targets per team, you did not need more rockets, or specifically more rockets constantly. Oh yeah the concept is radical and new but I do not see the need of it, and some resources are supposed to be scarce.

Also the game should be about choices, so choices if you use your AT gadget against infantry and maybe have too few to deal with armour. Or if you throw you grenade now, and are at a disadvantage in a later engagement. It requires thinking. Passive regen just supports careless actions and irrelevance of decisions.

Of course people are upset, DICE presented a solution to a problem that does not deal with the cause, they just try to treat the symptoms, with little effect. Grenades get thrown everywhere for a multitude of reasons, mostly because it is so darn fast, the maps are made for it and they have no drawbacks.
Heck people can not even decide on the definition of spam. I get grenades shoved in my face now on every engagement I have. Is that spam? Is it spam when three grenades fly into Verdun point B? But how else are you supposed to get rid of people in a bunker? When additionally to grenades, mortar shells, rocket guns and every other gadget gets shoved in your face as well, does that contribute to spam? Or maybe they should invest in some maps where the use of explosives against infantry does not prove as worthwhile...

Honestly with the new ammo initiative, it seems that their major issue is not dealing with spam, but radically changing the way the classes interact with each other. Self-dependency over relying on your teammates. I find that alarming, BF thrives on team interaction, I do not think lonewolfing should be a major part of the game design. But that is just me, I am conservative.

PvF 2017 Champion

Posts: 7,045

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

Saturday, March 18th 2017, 12:21am

You make it sound as though players have bottomless magazines even though it is clearly not the case.

The cost of expending a shot of your ATRG on infantry is X amount of seconds where you are unable to fire it at a tank.

That is plenty of decision-making. More than "I have a few limited shots, I better make sure I only use it on vehicles."

As for self-dependence, would you rather 49s without a grenade or 14s?
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.

Are you a scrub?

### Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it dies™.