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  • "sid_tai" started this thread

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1

Friday, March 17th 2017, 2:10am

Grenade spam issue and suggestions

For the sake of organization, I think I would be better to separate comments and suggestions to grenade spam in one thread instead of discussing it in the CTE thread with other comments.

Initially I was in support of the persistent timer like UCAV in BF4, but after some thoughts I think it would punish dying too much. In the CTE thread someone also mentioned that DICE thinks that it is a bit over the top. On the other hand, we do not want to punish staying alive by giving grenades only on respawn. I think the happy medium would be having a global timer that continues to tick while being dead.

The other issue is that auto-regeneration of grenades and maximum capacity of one punishes holding on to your grenade. The best strategy now is to throw it as it is ready, which IMO is not healthy. My suggestion is that DICE should establish a target of grenades available per game without resupplies. For example a conquest game lasts about 25-26 mins. A resupply timer that continues to tick down while being dead would be around (25mins/game)/(available grenades target/game). To solve the issue of holding on to grenades, DICE should make the maximum amount of grenades held more than one, possibly 3. So one is not punished for holding on to a grenade for later use. Also because the timer ticks from the start of the game, everyone should start with 0 grenades. People who rushes to the middle won't have a grenade ready and is forced to rely on their guns.

One issue that might arise is that people who have 3 grenades stashed might throw them all in one go. Therefore grenade throwing animation needs to be lengthened to BF4 level, and this issue has been widely requested by the community for a long time. Also, if a player wants to dump all 3 grenades in one go, he must have waited for a long time and he won't have any grenades available for a while, and it is a big tradeoff.

A suggested value for standard frag grenade timer would be 60 seconds, which makes 25 grenades in a conquest game per player, WITHOUT resupplies. I think this is a fair amount of grenades that is healthy to the gameplay.

As always, suggestions and comments are welcome.

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 2:30am

A persistent timer is one that ticks while you are dead. The BF1 Mortar uses this.

The BF4 UCAV did not use a persistent timer. It had a set delay before the weapon was usable per spawn.

You are also not punished for holding on to your grenade. What penalties are there? Do you lose health? Lose mobility?

What is the punishment for not throwing as soon as it is ready?
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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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  • "sid_tai" started this thread

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 2:49am

The auto-regen timer starts as soon as your grenade count is 0 right? So all else being equal, i.e. no ammo box resupplies, I will have a grenade available sooner for the next engagement right? Also I think increasing the max grenade count is a necessary trade-off to having a longer resupply timer. That is if DICE wants to maintain availability of grenades, it cannot increase the timer while keeping the max count the same. And I am all for increasing the timer and increasing max inventory count. IMO it enables more choice regarding your engagements.

Also I misunderstood what a persistent timer is. Now that I know, I do not believe it would be over the top, when coupled with increased max grenade inventory count.

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 4:14am

Honestly, I believe there's a who'latta fuss about a very minor issue. Do I get miffed when killed by a grenade of some sort? Yeah, but it's just a facet of Battlefield you gotta learn to live with or learn how to avoid as best you can.* If one is a player who chooses to fight in the blob, they will have grenades thrown at them and they will die to said grenades fairly often; it just comes with the territory. However, if one is the type of player who avoids the blob, goes AROUND it, then grenades are far less of a problem and are actually pretty balanced.

I generally avoid the blob as I find more success that way, so I don't monitor my grenade count as much. There are certain situations where I'll lay low for a few seconds to regenerate my grenade like for delivering a surprise for a roof-camper, but those circumstances are few and far between. And because I don't closely monitor my grenade count I rarely notice when it regenerates, so I'm almost never throwing one every 36s while alive.

Also, having an auto-regen means that you can assume your opponent has a grenade and can take that knowledge into account when engaging them. This isn't the focal point of having auto-regen, but it's a nice and convenient bonus for smart players as it's one less unknown to worry about.

*Except impact grenades, seriously screw those things. They get abused pretty heavily specifically when some 'fuckboy' chucks one at you before he even uses his primary and you're already at max 28 health, before you can react, to start the engagement.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


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Friday, March 17th 2017, 5:52am

The absurd throw speeds and dumb impact-based timers are far more significant issues than the resupply stuff everyone wants to talk/rant about.
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Friday, March 17th 2017, 6:00am

The absurd throw speeds and dumb impact-based timers are far more significant issues than the resupply stuff everyone wants to talk/rant about.
Remember when you had to switch weapons to throw grenades? All the other explosive gadgets require a drawtime too.

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 7:03am

The absurd throw speeds and dumb impact-based timers are far more significant issues than the resupply stuff everyone wants to talk/rant about.
100% this. If grenades couldn't be literally dropped in one frame after somebody is already dead and if they had a real timer like BF4, a huge amount of the nade bullshit in this game would be solved immediately. I don't understand why they did anything they did as it comes to grenade mechanics in this game. I absolutely never died to frag grenades in BF4 unless I was totally brain-dead yet it's a significant portion of my deaths in BF1.

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 9:59am

I'm still trying to understand why dying to grenades is a problem.

Grenades are a problem when they literally cannot let you play since your only avenue of approach has a 100% lethal blast template going off every second or less. But that is a problem because it is locking you down and preventing you from doing anything other than throwing grens back.

And this is squarely a map problem, not a grenade problem. Grenade spam literally does not work in any situation other than a hallway/tunnel/staircase. IOW anything that funnels people through a space the same size as the AOE template.

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 10:06am

Chokepoints are exactly where you'd expect an Ammo Box at the ready.

And if you look at the patch changes, the Box resupply time and amount are all worse than before.

In other words, the patch has already addressed chokepoints.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Friday, March 17th 2017, 10:31am

Regenerative grenades need to go. The grenade situation isn't totally bad now, but most players are definitely willing to let go of them since they'll come back on respawn or 36s later

Turn Frags into regular grenades on a 3.0s fuse, not deadlier RGOs with 1.0s impact timer

And ffs, increase the time it takes to throw a grenade. I'm not sure why, but lately I'm noticing people are starting to chuck nades when they're near death in a last ditch attempt to kill a shooter from beyond the grave. It's obnoxious and shouldn't be used in a direct firefight, just like in BF4