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  • "sid_tai" started this thread

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Thursday, March 16th 2017, 8:28am

Map imbalance: Amiens

I believe anyone who have played on Amiens would agree that the map is pretty German sided. It does not play out as badly as Suez because of the width but it is hard to deny the imbalance.

The major reason I can think of is the ease of access among the 3 German side points, ABC, versus the lack of it on the British side, DEF. A has perfect access to B, you can run from A to B without much fear of crossfire. But for F to E, you have to worry about the sniper fire from the little connector next to D. Second, B has very good access to D, with a curve on the road to protect you from sniper fire far down the D road, until close to the D. For E, first you have to run across the D road, which is an major sniper/infy farming tank route, then you have a long straight road to C, and other snipers will be waiting for you. Third, on the German side when you attack C from A, you have a big building after the straight to protect you from enemy fire while you prepare for the attack. At the same time, this strategic location provides sightlines into the alley, right to the D connector on the other side of the map. On the other hand, the British side provides no cover if you run along the tracks to attack C. The route is fully open. And if you wanna look into the alley to the C connector, you are exposed to crossfire from D bridge.

I am not against asymmetricity of maps, but you cannot have a balanced map when there is so few elements, if any, that the British has over the Germans.

I have thought long and hard on how to replace the flags to balance the map, but I can't think of any without altering the structures of the map. The British side simply has too many crossfire lanes that you need to cross, while German side has very few.

Please post any ideas that you guys have. Amiens is my favorite map in BF1 and I want to see it improved.

C0llis

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Thursday, March 16th 2017, 1:20pm

Personally I haven't thought of the map as very unbalanced, especially when compared to things like Fao, Giant's and Suez (eww...).

One thing that often stands out for me when playing Amiens that you haven't mentioned is how easy it is for a single german squad to contest E-F and pull back British resources. E in particular can be held(/contested) by one squad almost indefinitely if they camp the upper floors, especially if they nab the sentry. I can spend almost all game as the British running back and forth between E and F trying to get one squad, all the while my team is getting chewed out at C and D.

I agree that the map is favoring the Germans. One thing that could help the British is if there was a connector from the alley behind D and C (on the British side) up into the apartments facing the railway between D and C. That would help the British put pressure on those flags without having to funnel down the D and C roads which are absolute killing grounds. I don't think we would se this happen though, as it would require remodeling part of the map.

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And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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Thursday, March 16th 2017, 1:36pm

Hmm yeah, it would be cool to have some statistic back-up on this, as we had in BF4 for some maps. Generally I do like some asymmetric maps (Noshar was quite fun in my book), or were only a problem when you were playing against a squad working together (Rogue comes to mind here). I do like a challenge as well, like in Oman when playing the US side, although Conquest Small was just silly.

The only map that I think has a distinct advantage for one side, is Giant's Shadow because you can hide endlessly on some flags, with little chance of getting rid of guys.

Gecko99

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Thursday, March 16th 2017, 6:14pm

I used to see nothing but German wins on Amiens, but if the brits send in one or two squads over to A&B to constantly backcap the Germans often lose a foothold on the frontline and can usually be pushed back.
I do agree that the map is unbalanced though.
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Thursday, March 16th 2017, 7:47pm

While the push to EF is rewarding because of the apartment complex at E, it's actually much faster/easier to just rush A as the Germans. There are also lots of buildings you can hide in between A and B so it's fairly a wash.

Amiens is usually decided by a combination of successfull flanking and good farming on D-C, so the imbalances are less problematic than they could be since both sides offer good flanking potential and entrenching in the backfield.

  • "sid_tai" started this thread

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 12:43am

When I play on the German side, I find it very easy to clear A and B if they get backcapped, compared to E and F if I play on the British side. A lot of times I don't bother to go defend E because it wastes so much resources that it would be more beneficial to push B. E placement is just bad.

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 1:28am

When I play on the German side, I find it very easy to clear A and B if they get backcapped, compared to E and F if I play on the British side. A lot of times I don't bother to go defend E because it wastes so much resources that it would be more beneficial to push B. E placement is just bad.
Easier to clear but much harder to get to. It's really tough to run to F from the D side alleyway that goes down to the tracks - usually have to start with E first. Broken building around C flag gives you a clear shot to A.

The only major imbalance is how easy clearing B is relative to clearing E, but that also seems to be because Brit players don't seem to congregate around that building complex that connects C-D-B as they should.

  • "sid_tai" started this thread

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 2:14am

When I play on the German side, I find it very easy to clear A and B if they get backcapped, compared to E and F if I play on the British side. A lot of times I don't bother to go defend E because it wastes so much resources that it would be more beneficial to push B. E placement is just bad.
Easier to clear but much harder to get to. It's really tough to run to F from the D side alleyway that goes down to the tracks - usually have to start with E first. Broken building around C flag gives you a clear shot to A.

The only major imbalance is how easy clearing B is relative to clearing E, but that also seems to be because Brit players don't seem to congregate around that building complex that connects C-D-B as they should.
IMO running from C to A not easier than running from D to F. Both sides have sniper cover from the little connector behind C and D respectively. And both sides have the train tracks for cover. I would argue it might be easier to get to F from D because of the much larger train track space behind F compared to A.

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 3:22am

Here we have an aerial view of Amiens:
index.php?page=Attachment&attachmentID=1101

And these are the main routes, give or take:
index.php?page=Attachment&attachmentID=1099

In this image is is very apparent that each of the British main routes to the central flags C and D have a long line of sight, are completely linear, and, therefore, create more exposure to German troops (this is prime territory for Scouts, so *maybe* that's the balancing factor; long range support?), whereas the German routes have short(er) lines of sight, are curved, and, therefore, create less exposure to British troops.

Here's the symmetry. As we can see, drawing lines from the outer flags forms a parallelogram:
index.php?page=Attachment&attachmentID=1100

In this image we see that each flag on the German side matches with each point of an isosceles triangle (it's REALLY close if not exact); the flags on the British side do not because of the flag placement at D. I understand why, it's solely because of the bridge which has to be a point of interest especially for tanks, but it causes asymmetrical gameplay as a result.

Now this wouldn't be much of an issue on a more open map, but since Amiens has a lot of unusable space due to it being an urban environment, players are forced to stay within the defined routes for the most part. The slight asymmetric flag positioning and route limitations pave the way for a German bias I think. It's certainly what my games reflect anyhow.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Mar 17th 2017, 4:26am)


  • "sid_tai" started this thread

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Friday, March 17th 2017, 3:51am

Wow excellent drawing there JSLICE. Would moving D to the current connector work? The new capture point would include the entire cluster of ruined buildings, including the connector but not the train tracks or the bridge. So the British side has partial sight lines on it from current D bridge road, road between E and F and the train tracks. While the German side has partial sight lines from the alley, and the current D road. At the same time both building on the side of the train tracks will have partial sightlines as well, with the German side having a little bit better vision.