Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

  • "Veritable" started this thread

Posts: 853

Date of registration
: Dec 8th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 12

  • Send private message

1

Saturday, March 11th 2017, 9:39am

Scoring the BF1 Assault SMGs + Slug Shotgun

Previously: #1 Scoring the BF1 Medic Rifles and #2 Scoring the BF1 Sidearms

Deploy is no longer needed, so this has the same scoring ratio as the Medic Rifle one: 50% Shoot + Recover and 50% Useability. Though, the Stances follow the Sidearm one to only go up to 40m, and 50% Hipfire 50% ADS.

Damage Target is 200. To facilitate the MP 18 Experimental, the shooter fires 6rnds then recovers (so for the Experimental, that is chaining 2x 3RB).

Hipfire: 2.5m | 5m | 7.5m | 10m | 12.5m | 15m Moving, 2.5m | 5m | 7.5m | 10m | 12.5m | 15m Not Moving

ADS - Moving: 5m | 10m | 15m | 20m | 25m | 30m

ADS - Not Moving: 5m | 10m | 15m | 20m | 30m | 40m

Google Sheets worksheet: BF1 Assault Race To.... - Google Sheets

-----

Combined Awards

Combined Score: MP 18 Trench

Firing + Recovery: Automatico M1918 Trench

Useability: MP 18 Trench

Individual Awards

Firing Score: Automatico M1918 Trench

Recovery Score: Model 10-A Slug

Reload Score: Tied - all MP 18 variants

V-Recoil Score: Hellriegel 1915 Factory

Velocity Score: Tied - MP 18 and Model 10-A Slug
Veritable has attached the following files:

  • "Veritable" started this thread

Posts: 853

Date of registration
: Dec 8th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 12

  • Send private message

2

Saturday, March 11th 2017, 9:39am

Hipfire stances only.

Hipfire: 2.5m | 5m | 7.5m | 10m | 12.5m | 15m Moving, 2.5m | 5m | 7.5m | 10m | 12.5m | 15m Not Moving

-----

Combined Awards

Combined Score: Automatico M1918 Trench

Firing + Recovery: Automatico M1918 Trench

Useability: MP 18 Trench

Individual Awards

Firing Score: Automatico M1918 Trench

Recovery Score: Model 10-A Slug

Reload Score: Tied - all MP 18 and Automatico models

V-Recoil Score: Hellriegel 1915 Factory

Velocity Score: Tied - MP 18 and Model 10-A Slug
Veritable has attached the following files:

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Veritable" (Mar 11th 2017, 9:48am)


  • "Veritable" started this thread

Posts: 853

Date of registration
: Dec 8th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 12

  • Send private message

3

Saturday, March 11th 2017, 9:40am

ADS stances only.

ADS - Moving: 5m | 10m | 15m | 20m | 25m | 30m

ADS - Not Moving: 5m | 10m | 15m | 20m | 30m | 40m

-----

Combined Awards

Combined Score: MP 18 Optical

Firing + Recovery: Automatico M1918 Factory

Useability: MP 18 Optical

Individual Awards

Firing Score: Automatico M1918 Storm

Recovery Score: Model 10-A Slug

Reload Score: Tied - all MP 18 variants

V-Recoil Score: Hellriegel 1915 Factory

Velocity Score: Tied - MP 18 and Model 10-A Slug
Veritable has attached the following files:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Veritable" (Mar 11th 2017, 9:48am)


Posts: 104

Date of registration
: Nov 29th 2016

Platform: PS4

Location: Florida

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

4

Saturday, March 11th 2017, 2:09pm

Automatico TRENCH has the best firing score........ huh?

Posts: 129

Date of registration
: Oct 8th 2016

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

  • Send private message

5

Saturday, March 11th 2017, 3:28pm

Interesting how the mp18 trench comes out on top. I dismissed it out of hand for being a CQC variant of a weapon that trades over half the RPM for better long range performance.

Though won't this score be drastically altered by the incoming patch?

Posts: 3,252

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

6

Saturday, March 11th 2017, 5:01pm

Firing Score is based on how quickly the weapon can reach 200 damage. Considering that it shoots at 900 RPM while maintaining the same max damage as the other SMGs it makes perfect sense to be the best in that regard. The links he provides really do help, you know.

Remove all factors pertaining to Usability and one version of the Automatico is the winner; Trench for Hipfire and Factory for ADS. The MP18 Trench comes out first overall because it's much easier to use than the Automatico Trench/ Factory, and in practice the Automatico really isn't hard to use at all.

One would think that through viewing the ADS scores the MP18 Experimental is pretty terrible when it's the second best range option for Assault behind the Slug with the Optical coming in third. It could use some lovin' though. 0.322 Hrecoil isn't bad by any means, but it can always be slightly better if need be. I wouldn't know what an appropriate reduction would be though. 0.2 ADS stationary spread is the best in class, but only slightly better than the Optical's 0.225, 12.5% to be exact which isn't a whole lot better for it's skill-cannon-esque nature. 0.18 would be a better fit. Why? I couldn't tell you because I don't have access to the Hitrate Simulator, but 0.15-0.16 would be too much for an SMG and 0.17 is a weird value, so I settled for 0.18.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Mar 11th 2017, 5:26pm)


  • "Veritable" started this thread

Posts: 853

Date of registration
: Dec 8th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 12

  • Send private message

7

Saturday, March 11th 2017, 6:50pm

The "issue" with the Automatico is that it is inaccurate enough in "long range" ADS firing to require 2x reloading, while even at the most extreme ADS Not Moving stance I looked at, all MP 18 variants can achieve the 200 Damage Target without emptying its magazine.

So, 40m ADS - Not Moving, Automatico Trench vs. MP 18 Trench:

Rounds Fired - 28rnds vs. 20rnds

Firing Times - 1.85s vs. 2.166666667s

Recovery Times - 0.8833333333s vs. 0.5333333333s

Reload Times - 4.9s vs. 2.1s

Total Times - 7.633333333s vs. 4.8s

The MP 18 Trench does the "deed" 37% faster, so it is scored higher.

-----

The "issues" with the MP 18 Experimental are:

#1 It doesn't have the Optical's SIPS FSM buff, causing slightly lower ADS damage output than you'd expect from its stats... and also that means you have more SIPS to Recover from, causing more delays.

ADS - Not Moving 40m, MP 18 Experimental vs. MP 18 Optical:

Firing Times - 1.95s vs. 2.066666667s

Recovery Times - 0.6s vs. 0.45s

Reload Times - 2.1s vs. 2.1s

Total Times - 4.65s vs. 4.616666667s

#2 The Optical gets ADS - Moving Spread buff, but the Experimental doesn't.

#3 Due to the Experimental being 3RB only, that means to simulate 6RB the Experimental shooter has to click twice, whereas all the other guys just need to click-and-hold once. That means suffering from both SIPS and V-Recoil FSM twice as opposed to once, again causing more delays to the Recovery Time (the Recovery Times above shows that) AND you go through more V-Recoil (0.228deg more in this ADS - Not Moving 40m stance, despite shooting 1rnd less).

-----

The "issues" with the Hellriegel:

#1 TERRIBLE Hipfire performance.

#2 You'd think that its 60rnds magazine is awesome, but even "racing" to 200dmg it is just not necessary. So you'd be doing Partial Reloads all the time, but its Partial Reload speed also sucks. The MP 18's 32rnds "snail magazine" is already good enough, and can be reloaded nearly 2x faster.

Yet another case of the most-used gun in usage statistics being the worst in my scoring.

-----

Finally, the "issue" with the Model 10-A Slug:

V-Recoil. 11deg per shot. Keep in mind that I "score" them by simply looking at how much V-Recoil you accumulate getting to the Damage Target. The Slug has extremely high damage per hit, so it doesn't need to shoot a lot to get there... but that V-Recoil value is still INSANE.

If instead of scoring accumulated V-Recoil, I did V-Recoil Per Second, then the Slug will be looked at more favourably. Otherwise, it is already 2nd in all the Shoot + Recovery charts.

So, my suggestion is to look at its place int he ranking with some grains of salt, and acknowledge that it is... a bit different from the others.

Despite that, in the current rankings it still beats the Hellriegel, which tells you just how badly my charts think of that gun.

-----

Finally yes, once the DLC and its patch drops, I will go back and re-run the affected weapons AND add the new ones. Also, if Negative SIPS can be simulated properly, I want to do Support LMGs as well.

Posts: 68

Date of registration
: Mar 2nd 2017

Platform: PS4

Reputation modifier: 1

  • Send private message

8

Saturday, March 11th 2017, 7:40pm

I switched from the Automatico Storm to the Factory variant a while back. It's a harder to use, but it's well worth it. My favorite gun in the game now, and it's criminally underused (currently at 1.5% or so on battlefieldtracker).

I asked somewhere else, but I didn't get a response, so I'll ask here again. "Can anyone who uses the Automatico Factory regularly in the base game confirm how much of an impact the CTE nerf-buff had on its usability? "

Posts: 129

Date of registration
: Oct 8th 2016

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

  • Send private message

9

Saturday, March 11th 2017, 7:55pm

@Veritable The mp18 experimental should only suffer that once, the FSM for spread at least is moved to the third round, I believe.

Posts: 3,429

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

10

Saturday, March 11th 2017, 8:36pm

I'm still not sure why 200 damage is used, it simply murders the score of guns like the 10-A Slug.
Who has fun, wins.