Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

BeefVellington

The Real Yugas

(282)

  • "BeefVellington" started this thread

Posts: 91

Date of registration
: Feb 15th 2017

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 4

  • Send private message

1

Thursday, March 9th 2017, 9:47pm

Looks like the jig is up boys (Levelcap Model 8 Video)

Looks like Levelcap finally did his video on the Model 8 Marksman. The title of the video is as follows:

Autoloading 8 .35 Marksman - Is It The Best? | Battlefield 1 Medic Gun - YouTube

He starts off strong and mentioning its low TTK as compared to most weapons in the game. He then has a severe case of madcuzbad and basically says he can't get kills with it at range and that 5 rounds is just too haaard :ccc

I was afraid this would actually start getting people to use the weapon and I'm sure some will after today but I think for the most part outside of the RSC 1917 challenge nobody is going to really want to touch it if they go solely off his feedback. He does admit that it requires a large amount of skill to use well (despite it not even being one of the higher-tier skillcannons in the game).\

Thoughts on the video as a whole? I was getting ready to be impressed and then just really kind of wasn't.

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

2

Thursday, March 9th 2017, 9:57pm

Beat you to it.

Anyway, might as well transfer my response to it over here since a thread is dedicated to it now.

Well-well-well. Would you looky here, looks like someone came to their senses, with a decent analysis I might add. Now is it possible that he just copied down what most of us were saying? Absolutely, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that it is original to an extent.

Here's the gist of it: On-paper the Autoloading 8 . 35 is the ultimate single kill weapon whose TTK is only beat by the Automatico. It is very unforgiving in that 3 of 5 shots (60% accuracy) are necessary to down a healthy opponent, 4 for extreme ranges, and the reward doesn't match the unforgiving nature and high skill to use it. The amount of downtime while reloading actually helps good players be better Medics in that awareness is more present, so therefore noticing hurt or downed teammates is more present. The gun can act as a way to train better awareness with other weapons if you so choose. Coming across multiple unaware targets becomes awkward in that several decisions need to be made like going for headshots to conserve the already low ammunition or switching to a pistol, but in CQB pistols aren't always going to cut it. The inability to kill multiple targets is a huge buzzkill and won't mold to certain playstyles. Use at your own discretion.

I feel that's a good summary for the video and it pretty much covers all the important points.

A couple rebuttals to add: the 60% accuracy requirement is on a per engagement basis, not overall. 99.999% may not have a 60% overall accuracy, which includes all shots fired, but could very well have a 60%+ per engagement accuracy especially in the weapon's intended range of 12m - 47m (12m being the point where the 8 .35's TTK exceeds that of the Automatico and 47m+ being the point where the 1906 outshoots the 8 .35, a 3 shot vs. 4 shot).

The nonsense about the 1907 Sweeper. I really don't get it. The 8 .25 Extended is the close quarter 8 .35 sharing the same BTK and RoF, and therefore TTK, out to 17m, there is no reason to compare the Sweeper with a comparatively slower RoF but equal max damage to the 8 .35. That's just dumb if you ask me.

There is a pistol in the Medic class that kills *almost* equally as fast as the dreaded Automatico: the Auto Revolver. Git gud with this gun and worry no more about the dastardly and "cheap close quarter kill" weapon that is the Automatico. Not only this is true, but it has the capacity to kill 3 unaware opponents with perfect accuracy in close quarters. So if you would part from your precious 1911, you could do both of these things.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with the remainder of the points brought forth except the comment that it isn't rewarding enough for being too demanding and very high skill to utilize effectively. Bish please! Unmatched 1v1 capability isn't enough to satisfy you? Oh, that's right. You want to be able to kill more than one target at a time. Well, to each their own. At least he did the stats justice, the ones he mentioned anyway. The exclusion of the superb Hrecoil, base spread, and SIPS was silly because these are the factors that make the gun as good as it is; they are exactly why you can shoot at max RoF and still retain good accuracy. Anyways, whatever. Beggars can't be choosers.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Posts: 115

Date of registration
: Dec 20th 2016

Platform: PC

Location: Malta

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 4

  • Send private message

3

Friday, March 10th 2017, 8:47am

Same feeling. I was expecting it to be a 'confession', though it was nothing of the sort and here is why...


99.999% of the player base cannot manage 60% accuracy. Apart from the arbitrary bias number, hitting 3 shots with a 360RPM and low horizontal recoil is not hard. I get the feeling that levelcap looked and his personal accuracy and said '60%? No way!'. So.. either anyone who does well with that gun is the Doomslayer, or that levelcap is exaggerating

Just look at my accuracy with it (32%)
I also took a snippet of Marbleduck's stats as he has alot of kills with it and is what I call, Auto-8-Jesus. His sits at around 44



EDIT: Images were not working for some reason, so just remember 32% for me and 44% for Marbleduck :]


And there is a re season for this. When I use a 5 round SLR, it is very likely that I either fire the last 2 shots to get the more predictable stripper reload (or in the 1906's case, much faster 2s reload)

I will give him credit though that he highlighted the type of play style the model 8 offers. It was not a terrible video by any means, its just that 60% accuracy claim bugged me ever so slightly. (Ok alot)

FYI: I watch levelcap regularly and actually do enjoy most of his content. I just dislike misinformation or in this case severe hyperbole.

Posts: 42

Date of registration
: Feb 16th 2017

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

  • Send private message

4

Friday, March 10th 2017, 9:09am

There was one comment in Levelcap's video that interested me. He raised the point that the 5rnd SLRs are less suitable in highly concentrated player modes like Operations. It made me wonder if people here use other weapons in those modes or do y'all adapt your playstyle in some way(s)? Along the same lines, how do you guys deal with conquest maps that are very flat/open/uncovered (I'm primarily thinking of Giant's Shadow here)? I perform much worse in those places and I wondered what methods are being employed to deal with those environments.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Captain Qwark" (Mar 10th 2017, 9:16am)


Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

5

Friday, March 10th 2017, 9:37am

Certain Operations sections are really tough on an 8 .35 user like St. Quentin Scar before and after you hit the village, most sequences on Oil of Empires, and transitioning from objective to objective on Empire's Edge. But in reality, there are areas on each map where 8 .35ers can single out targets while retaining good cover and ideal distance for quick 3-shot kills. Appropriate positioning exists, you just have to find it and get there relatively unscathed haha.

On Giant's Shadow the only suitable areas for the Autoloading 8 .35 are literally the capture points. Anything outside of the capture points is just dead space where Scouts thrive and are in abundance. For Sinai, the village area between C and D is your best bet and if that area is occupied by enemies then good luck! Fao Fortress is a toss up. It really depends on if the Scouts are occupied shooting at other Scouts because of the high elevation that the cliffs and fortress provide. It's challenging to limit your angles of exposure here. That's my take on the matter.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Posts: 292

Date of registration
: Dec 2nd 2013

Platform: PC

Location: California

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

6

Friday, March 10th 2017, 10:43am

Levelcap basically acknowledges that the Auto8 .35 is one of the ultimate 1v1 weapons, but struggles if you want to push aggressively against a group of enemies, which is his playstyle. Basically asks everyone else to just try the weapon out and form their own opinions and see if it fits their playstyle

So are people shocked because he's insulting the secret holy grail of Symthic, or that he's actually making sense?

Posts: 2

Date of registration
: Feb 27th 2017

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

  • Send private message

7

Friday, March 10th 2017, 5:00pm

Levelcap assumes that the autoloading user is total noobscrub and can't hit his shots and the opponents have 100% accuracy with other guns, makes up a situation where user made a mistake and enemy does not and the gun is to blame for loosing

Posts: 7,809

Date of registration
: Feb 25th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: italy

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

8

Friday, March 10th 2017, 6:46pm

Levelcap basically acknowledges that the Auto8 .35 is one of the ultimate 1v1 weapons, but struggles if you want to push aggressively against a group of enemies, which is his playstyle. Basically asks everyone else to just try the weapon out and form their own opinions and see if it fits their playstyle

So are people shocked because he's insulting the secret holy grail of Symthic, or that he's actually making sense?

i think they are shocked because he's making sense(To a minimal extent, he still did say his usual amount of stupid stuff) without actually sharing their opinion completely.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif




Posts: 895

Date of registration
: Dec 8th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

9

Friday, March 10th 2017, 7:36pm

There was one comment in Levelcap's video that interested me. He raised the point that the 5rnd SLRs are less suitable in highly concentrated player modes like Operations. It made me wonder if people here use other weapons in those modes or do y'all adapt your playstyle in some way(s)? Along the same lines, how do you guys deal with conquest maps that are very flat/open/uncovered (I'm primarily thinking of Giant's Shadow here)? I perform much worse in those places and I wondered what methods are being employed to deal with those environments.

I only play Operations-64 and CQL. Used to be more of the previous, but now more of the latter, as I usually get on at around 10-11PM Pacific and by then the Operations matchmaking "black box" is a total crap-shoot.... Out of the 4 Operations, at most just 1 will be populated. CQL at least can be accessed via Server Browser, so I know the game is already going.

On your topic of crossing open fields, well, NONE of the Medic Rifles will help you when you are trying to fight a Scout in his Sweetspot, as his TTK is essentially just the bullet flight time and nothing else.... So 5rnds, 10rnds, 25rnds, none of that matters; your M1916 Marksman 4x doesn't shoot nearly fast enough to impart meaningful Suppression, and to attempt to even do so means you are standing still in the open field, meaning your life expectancy is LOWER than if you had the 5rnd SLR and just kept your head down and RUN.

So, just do the usual things....

#1 Smoke Grenades.

#2 Rely on your team's Scouts and Bipod-Supports to pick off / suppress their Scouts as you advance.

#3 Medic Train, complimented by Squad Spawns as some of you inevitably makes it to cover.

#4 Don't follow the blob, and instead run offset routes, relying on enemy Scouts' natural tendency to sight in on the area that is rich in targets, hopefully ignoring this lone guy just outside their peripheral vision.

Posts: 42

Date of registration
: Feb 16th 2017

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

  • Send private message

10

Friday, March 10th 2017, 10:48pm

Thanks to JSLICE20 and Veritable for your input. I feel like when I "do the usual things" on Giant's shadow I don't have the usual success. Despite liberal use of smoke I suffer heavy casualties in the approach to the downed blimp (points C, D) and upon arrival I find most of the enemy team there and scant cover. This is in my mind the worst scenario for a 5 round robin. I have recently tried, with moderate success, playing as assault within the rigid airship. I use something like a hellriegel or an m97, drop a smoke or two, and rush the enemy in a hyper aggressive manner, killing multiple enemies quickly before succumbing myself. This is the complete opposite of my normal conservative play-style but I find it far more effective to the point that I don't see a valid alternative. Not to mention the bonus of being assault on a map where vehicles are so deadly (is it me or is this map the best for planes and other vehicles to rack up kills?). I often try to make make flanking maneuvers around the edges of the map. They are sometimes very successful, but usually I am killed before I can get anywhere. I don't like to follow the blob, but on this map especially I feel impelled helplessly into the meat grinder along with everyone else.