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Zer0Cod3x

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: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

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21

Sunday, March 5th 2017, 4:35am

Revolvers need a very challenging playstyle to succeed, but unlike the Medic Auto-8 .35 and 1906, due to the presence of 450rpm Pocket Pistols and 360rpm "not-service-pistols," you don't even gain any advantage in terms of TTK. I just... don't see it. For showing-off and feeling like a BAMF when you quick-draw then 2-shot someone in CQB, I guess?

It's essentially a second primary for when you're in CQB. If you're entering a small room or know an enemy is rounding the corner, you can switch to a revolver instead of trying to kill them with a weapon that might be sub-optimal for CQB. Since the revolvers have a faster TTK than basically everything but shotguns, you can almost be sure that you'll win the firefight provided your aim is good.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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: Jun 21st 2012

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22

Sunday, March 5th 2017, 5:47am

I still can't understand why FN Browning M1903 beats out "spammy quartet" so noticeable. The SQ has faster RoF, faster reload, slightly higher Hrec, slightly lower muzzle velocity and slightly worse damage model. Because all of these compensates each other - M1903 and SQ have nearly same TTK with notable advantage of SQ under 11m, which is more important than 0.2 more Hrec for a sidearm(it's not like 3 total Hrec on Lancaster pistol, which is absolute [put a swearing here]). M1903 is great all-arounder, but SQ are the real "true secondaries".
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.

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: Mar 8th 2014

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23

Sunday, March 5th 2017, 11:23pm

Sirs, I feel you have impugned the honor of my glorious 1911!

I too was once seduced by the rate of fire of the pocket pistols, but lo my time in the calvary regiment has given me a deep and abiding affection for the 1911. It's a 3sk with very nice recoil. I can miss twice in cqb and still get a double kill. I can't pull the trigger fast enough to be optimal with the pocket pistols, and god help me the recoil on the revolvers is atrocious. I can't maintain a decent sight picture while firing to save my life!

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: Feb 26th 2017

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24

Monday, March 6th 2017, 1:46am

Oddly I preferred the P08 for all my classes with the exception of the Scout (I used the Frommer Stop).

Maybe I'll try out the MLE later since I didn't like it at first.

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: Feb 16th 2017

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25

Monday, March 6th 2017, 1:49pm

Question for the thread:
If a player cannot click at 450 rpm, the TTK of the pocket pistols will be lower than the stats indicate. However, you will get more lots of recoil reset and spread decrease in exchange. What click speed did @Veritable use in his analysis? I think it's safe to say that most people are not firing them at max speed.

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26

Monday, March 6th 2017, 5:30pm

Max RPM 4RB, then pause to reset Spread Increase. Repeat until Damage Target met. Reload.

It is not the gun's fault if the user cannot click as fast as the gun allows; though again, in BF1 it is easier than previous titles due to shot-queing. Of course if you take a 450rpm Pocket Pistol and only manage to shoot 360rpm with it, you will be better off with the Mle or the C93, simply by virtue of the better damage model. That makes sense, because you discarded the one advantage that the Pocket Pistols have; so, you might as well use something else.

For example, due to their various pluses and minuses, right now the Mle M1903 and M1914 are virtually tied. 0.1624pts out of SIX HUNDRED separates them. If you shoot them both at 299rpm, though, then that difference increases to 16.2274pts, just about 10x increase. The M1914 also drops 6 spots on the ranking, from 2nd to 8th.

If you know your own limitations, then feel free to adjust the ranking as you see fit. Just understand that as a posted analysis, I cannot do that here.

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27

Monday, March 6th 2017, 10:27pm

I just use the ones with the fastest deploy time, nr.1 being the 1903 MLe and nr.2 is the NO.3 Revolver.
The fast deploy time can really save you in a pinch.

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: Feb 2nd 2017

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28

Tuesday, March 14th 2017, 10:45am

What I don't understand is the time to kill for the auto revolver is higher for close ranges than most guns in the game period. Why does it score so low for you?

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29

Tuesday, March 14th 2017, 5:37pm

What I don't understand is the time to kill for the auto revolver is higher for close ranges than most guns in the game period. Why does it score so low for you?

It's because the Shooting Times is not the time to kill... 1 target. It is the time to kill... TWO targets. You may disagree with that criteria, but I feel that doing so produces results that reflects better on the chaotic nature of Battlefield Conquest Large.

-----

Shooting Mechanics Time to 100 Damage, at minimum range / max projectile damage, which is what you are more used to....

Auto Revolver: 0.3666666667s vs. Taschenpistole M1914: 0.4s

-----

Shooting Mechanics Time to 200 Damage, same minimum range, which is what I've done here....

Auto Revolver: 1.1s vs. Taschenpistole M1914: 0.9333333333s

-----

Beyond that, the Auto Revolver is below average in Deploy Score, Reload Score, Velocity Score, and most significantly in V-Recoil Score. All those are even pure stats, nothing objective here, as seen in the Simple Comparison between the two.

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: Feb 2nd 2017

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30

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 2:33am

Well for the TTK for 1m/ 5m/ 10m/ 15m and under 20m it seems the auto beats out the tasch m1914

off from symthic: Auto revolver: 272/290/311/333 vs Tasch m1914: 404/417/432/448

also the tasch requires 4 bullets to kill 10 m and down while the auto is 2. Meaning the tasch can kill 2 targets only if one bullet is missed while the auto can kill 2 and miss 2 shots or the potential to kill 3.

Above 11 meters it takes the tasch 5 bullets to kill meaning one clip cant down 2 people while the auto can.

I am aware of the negatives of the auto revolver, it just seems to my math that even when doubling the time to kill for 2 people the auto revolver wins in time and in dependability for killing multiple enemies in cqc distances.

Let me know if I am missing something
What I don't understand is the time to kill for the auto revolver is higher for close ranges than most guns in the game period. Why does it score so low for you?

It's because the Shooting Times is not the time to kill... 1 target. It is the time to kill... TWO targets. You may disagree with that criteria, but I feel that doing so produces results that reflects better on the chaotic nature of Battlefield Conquest Large.

-----

Shooting Mechanics Time to 100 Damage, at minimum range / max projectile damage, which is what you are more used to....

Auto Revolver: 0.3666666667s vs. Taschenpistole M1914: 0.4s

-----

Shooting Mechanics Time to 200 Damage, same minimum range, which is what I've done here....

Auto Revolver: 1.1s vs. Taschenpistole M1914: 0.9333333333s

-----

Beyond that, the Auto Revolver is below average in Deploy Score, Reload Score, Velocity Score, and most significantly in V-Recoil Score. All those are even pure stats, nothing objective here, as seen in the Simple Comparison between the two.