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Posts: 274

Date of registration
: Jun 21st 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Moscow, Russia

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21

Friday, May 12th 2017, 5:36am

I still don't understand why we are trying to compare an all-around good finishing pistol with great muzzle velocity, min. spread and damage model to CQB-expert pistol, which is not that effective at, let's say 20m.
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.

Posts: 274

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: Dec 2nd 2013

Platform: PC

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22

Friday, May 12th 2017, 6:58am

People are also assuming that you will pull and accurately fire two shots at the maximum 450 RPM, for a whopping 0.07s faster than the Mars. At the ideal ranges you would use the Mars to chase wounded people down and finish them off with a single moneyshot, that draw speed and RPM is meaningless. And yes, I'm well aware that most of you would prefer to use your bolt action again to finish someone off at anywhere from 20-30m. The point is that the Mars will let you do it with a huge 11-round mag, semi-automatic capability, both in unrestricted hipfire mobility or ADS accuracy if necessary.

Posts: 3,257

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: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

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23

Friday, May 12th 2017, 7:11am

So the Mars exists to compensate for bad aim. What else is new?
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
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    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
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    AttractSoftZone 0.75
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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Posts: 274

Date of registration
: Dec 2nd 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Nepped On

Battlelog:

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24

Friday, May 12th 2017, 8:12am

Being able to chase and ADAD hipfire to finish off a wounded target, with one shot from a sidearm at a greater distance, isn't compensating for bad aim. It's utilizing the specific niche of a weapon while dealing with its inherent weaknesses.


Yes, it's shocking to hear people don't use the statistically proven and Symthic sponsoredô weapons, but sometimes they're actually used for a reason. My top killing primary is the Selby M1916 Marksman; am I now no-brained shitter who only listens to LevelCap?

Posts: 3,257

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

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25

Friday, May 12th 2017, 8:33am

No, you're free to use whatever you want if you find success with it but it's fruitless to argue in favor of a statistically worse option when trying to determine what the best option is overall; defeating pub players on the regular with a bad gun isn't a viable metric for that. I recognize that a lot of the time the statistically best option just isn't necessary in pubs and that worse ones are really just good enough to get by because the competition is chock-full of incompetents, but am I going to advocate it as the most optimal setup? No, because there are better ones available and better players than me will beat me with those more optimal setups. Unfortunately, there's no reliable way to know how good a player actually is, so sometimes it's better to just use the statistically best options to be safe.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
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        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
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    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
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    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
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    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

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    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
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    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Posts: 274

Date of registration
: Dec 2nd 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Nepped On

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 9

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26

Friday, May 12th 2017, 9:02am

I challenge you to find a single post in this thread that says the Mars is statistically the best overall sidearm and the most optimal setup for Scout.

Nobody here has actually said that. In fact, a lot of the people who recognize its niche know it's a subpar sidearm outside of it, and recommend the Frommer Stop instead.

The Mars is clearly designed for a single purpose, and it does it well. Disparaging the gun (and by extension, its users) as statistically crap is completely missing the point

Posts: 226

Date of registration
: Sep 20th 2016

Platform: PC

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27

Friday, May 12th 2017, 9:47pm

I still don't understand why we are trying to compare an all-around good finishing pistol with great muzzle velocity, min. spread and damage model to CQB-expert pistol, which is not that effective at, let's say 20m.

Why? Conversation went like this:
Thread: Mars gud gun
Me: Why?
Thread: Mars gud finisher
Me: Frommer better finisher.
Thread: DON'T YOU TALK BAD TALK ABOUT MUH MARS

Posts: 3,257

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

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28

Saturday, May 13th 2017, 2:49am

I challenge you to find a single post in this thread that says the Mars is statistically the best overall sidearm and the most optimal setup for Scout.

Challenge accepted.

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

it shines as a pistol finisher. DICE must have implemented it that way, also it does show how instinctively the players gravitate to the best option.

Challenge won.

Rekt.

Also:

Quoted from "Diavol"

Frommer Stop is great at CQB, but can't be used as finisher past 16m.

Implying the Mars is better or the best. Which is wrong.

Quoted from "Diavol"

1 shot has way much less TTK than 2

To which Capta and duck disproved this incorrect notion.

Quoted from "Diavol"

why we are trying to compare an all-around good finishing pistol with great muzzle velocity, min. spread and damage model to CQB-expert pistol, which is not that effective at, let's say 20m.

Again, implying the Frommer isn't effective or is nor effective as the Mars, which is to say that the Mars is better or the best. Also wrong.

Double rekt.

-----------------------------

The issue is that no one bothered to highlight 'best for me' or 'good for me' vs. 'best overall' or 'good overall'. If that were properly distinguished, I would have no problem. Different guns work for different people. I take issue with the spread of misinformation that the Mars is better than the Frommer for finishing off a Single Action hit or the best option to do so. If someone were to say, "the Mars is good because it works best FOR ME" I would have likely ignored the conversation altogether because the disclaimer FOR ME is simply a matter of opinion. But no, people had to go out and directly say or imply that "the Mars is the best finisher pistol," which can only be perceived as 'best overall'.

The thing is that more ammo and better velocity are ease-of-use attributes and donít provide concrete worth within a weapon. Good players can work around lower ammo capacity and slower velocity, but cannot work around an abysmal draw time or rate of fire. That's why people like Capta and duck prefer the Frommer Stop and reasonably so; the Mars has too many limitations. Plus in a surprise CQB situation, you're just about fucked with a Mars but can stand a fighting chance with the Frommer Stop.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
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        y 1.2
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    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Posts: 274

Date of registration
: Dec 2nd 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Nepped On

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 9

  • Send private message

29

Saturday, May 13th 2017, 4:19am

?(


All these quotes you neatly handpicked are within the context of the Mars being a better finisher at further ranges than what the Frommer Stop excels at. And I honestly don't know how you can make the jump from "best finisher pistol" to "best overall pistol" either, when nobody here has actually claimed the latter. The very people you're accusing of "making false statements" would be the first to say that the Mars is kinda mediocre overall as a sidearm.


Like I've already mentioned, the Frommer Stop is indeed a faster finisher at further ranges... by a massive 0.07s. Which requires 2 shots to land, as opposed to the Mars's 1 shot. If you are seriously sneering at an option that is suboptimal by 70 milliseconds without taking into account a +210m/s velocity boost and 23 minimum damage, you need to stop theory crafting and actually play the game. Something emblematic of some posters here in general actually; don't underestimate ease-of-use. Except we're venturing past "Who the hell uses Angled/Muzzle on ACE23?" territory into questioning an entire weapon archetype/niche's existence.

Posts: 3,257

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: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

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30

Saturday, May 13th 2017, 4:56am

You can't be fucking serious. I'm also using the context of 'finisher pistol'.
I take issue with the spread of misinformation that the Mars is better than the Frommer for finishing off a Single Action hit or the best option to do so.

Jesus Christ. I made it bigger and brighter so you could see it. I merely suggested that the Frommer Stop is a multipurpose tool while the Mars is a one-trick pony.

I've used the Mars and it is garbage, so, no, I'm not simply theory-crafting. In fact, I prefer the Bodeo's finishing ability in conjunction with a quick TTK in close quarters. But if I had to choose between the Frommer Stop and Mars, I'd choose the Frommer for the reasons already listed.

I'm by no means a great player, but I still see little purpose for ease-of-use attributes; they only serve to limit someone's true potential.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho