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BeefVellington

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Monday, February 27th 2017, 7:09am

On the subject of skillcannons...

I saw a video a few weeks back which referenced skillcannons in Battlefield 1 and how there supposedly aren't any according to some youtubers. Anyone with a brain can see that there are several weapons in the game which meet the criteria. It was determined that the Model 8 .35 and the Luger 1906 are in fact skillcannons as opposed to the other high ease-of-use and high ammo count rifles. I do think those weapons do require a high degree of skill and accuracy combined with proper positioning to use them effectively, however they're quite forgiving compared to other "skillcannon" type weapons.

I took some time during the past few weeks to try out some of the other high-risk/high-reward weapons in the game. Here's my comprehensive list. I'm placing them in a tier list based on how much skill it requires to use each weapon effectively. For reference, I'll place a few other weapons in tiers so you can get an idea of how my system works.

The Model 8 .35 Factory is a B-tier skillcannon; kills extremely quickly and has good ranged performance. Requires good positioning and must have at least 60% acc per magazine so it places higher than most other weapons.

The Martini-Henry Infantry is a C-tier skillcannon; the favorite of rivaLxfactor (but only when it has broken body multipliers). Before the Winter Patch I would have placed it higher but now it's back to being annoying as shit with lower skill required to use this time. I have a few service stars with the weapon and it's honestly loads of fun to use but it doesn't require that much other than raw aim. Extremely generous sweetspot and 90dmg before said sweet spot makes finishing a target a complete zero-risk event.

Anyway, let's begin proper now.

I started my quest with the Gewehr M.95 Infantry. It has a faster rate of fire compared to some of the other Scout rifles and can two-shot bodyshot kill or one-shot headshot kill at any range. It also doesn't have any optical sights so one is forced to play a more midrange role with the rifle. While fun to use and requiring a decent amount of technical skill to use effectively, it was netting me a lot of assists-counting-as-kills (as even a long range bodyshot is over 75dmg) and I found it fairly trivial to reload a partially expended magazine as it uses en-bloc clips as opposed to stripper clips. I only ran with it for a few games before deciding to move on as it seemed like a total cakewalk.

The Gewehr M.95 is a C-tier skillcannon; not quite skill-based enough for my tastes. Its total potential skill ceiling isn't too high unless you become a headshot god.

My next stop was the Model 10-A Slug. A real challenge for a real oberator. This seemed like a very unforgiving option initially; if you miss your initial shot in CQC you will almost certainly be out-TTK'd by any player with a shred of brain matter. I just happened to pick up this weapon the exact day before the Winter Patch dropped which as some of you know ended up buffing the Slug's CQC potential quite a bit. Before this patch, I was pretty satisfied with it as a skill-based weapon and as a ranged option for Assault. I was able to contest mid-tier Scout players at distances of 50 meters or so with the weapon. It also had respectable CQC potential, but only if you aimed carefully.

When the Winter Patch dropped, I ended up earning another four service stars with the Slug in a matter of only a few days. Being able to hit armshots for OHKs in CQC is honestly a lifesaver in many situations and this extended killstreaks of mine in many cases where it would have not before. I was willing to give this weapon the title of S-tier skillcannon until this patch until I realized that it's now actually a good gun and beats out the Model 10-A Hunter in many situations. I was regularly out-gunning Hunter users and other shotguns in general. The new 112 max damage may not seem like a lot but IMO it was enough to push this weapon into true greatness.

Side-note: the hipfire cone of this weapon is a half a degree at most. Hipfire is the same as aiming down sights within 15 meters. I feel like I'm using the railgun from Quake when running this thing.

The Model 10-A Slug is an A-tier skillcannon; despite its newfound dominance in CQC it still requires good aim and positioning to contest people outside 12 meters.

I decided to give the Slug a rest after I achieved Mastery with the weapon. It is clearly good now and therefore not skillcannon-like enough for my skillcannon needs. A true skillcannon must be an overall bad weapon which only truly shines in the hands of a skilled player. The Kolibri obviously came to mind but it's a joke weapon and I would only consider including it in my tier list as a joke. It'd be pretty funny if I did but I won't.

I decided to look at the overall weapon usage statistics on battlefieldtracker.com next. I wanted to see how the 1903 Experimental stacks up as I was considering using it in my skillcannon quest. Unfortunately it's getting changed to be less bad in the CTE (and therefore less skill-based) so I decided against using it overall but my looking at the usage stats did find something interesting. I noticed there is only one weapon below the 1903 Experimental on the list of Scout weapons in terms of usage rate. It's a weapon I'd earned a Service Star with very early on in my Battlefield 1 career but decided to put away as I thought it too difficult to use generally speaking, even though I had respectable stats with it.

I'm of course talking about the Russian 1895 Trench variant. This turned out to be the weapon I was looking for. Initially it looks very similar to the Russian 1895 Infantry but with several key differences which completely neuter its ability to engage in combat in any meaningful sense at any range. For starters it's chambered in the weaker .30-40 Krag cartridge (as opposed to the 7.62x54R which the 1895 Infantry uses) and has an overall weaker damage model to reflect this. It deals a maximum of 79 damage in CQC. This is the same as the minimum damage of the Gewehr M.95. This means that if you hit an armshot in CQC and then die, you'll only deal 73 damage and therefore be just under the requirement to earn an assist-counts-as-kill. You have to finish your targets like a man with this one. The 1895 Trench drops off to a measly forty damage at 56 meters or so. This will require three bodyshots to kill or even up to four shots if you hit a few arms or legs.

The Trench variant of any typical weapon in Battlefield 1 typically denotes a heightened ability to perform in CQC as compared to the standard version. This particular weapon is one case where the Trench is only marginally better for these situations. The primary CQC advantage of the Trench is its nearly doubled rate of fire which allows quick dispersal of shots in your immediate vicinity. Most other Trench variants have a meaningful increase to their hipfire capability as well. The Russian 1895 Trench has what is likely the single largest hipfire spread value of any Trench variant in the game. It's borderline unusable as a hipfire machine outside of 5 meters and even if you do hit a hipfire shot in CQC, it's likely to be a low-damage limb shot. Even your dying spamfire can't usually net you an assist-counts-as-kill. Just a ten-point normal assist. So sad.

The 1895 Trench is very possibly the worst weapon in the entire game. It is for this reason that it's the single best skillcannon available to players in Battlefield 1.

It requires 100% accuracy. No excuses. If you land one hit and miss once, you're very likely dead. Even if you do score a hit and are in a position to get a second hit, you'll get out-TTK'd by many weapons in the game before your follow-up shot is available at all. If you're not going for headshots in CQC, you're not gonna get far vs. good players. One might argue that the Gewehr M.95 has similar CQC properties and is actually more difficult to use in that role. However the Gewehr M.95 can reload a full magazine in one go (accentuating its 1v2 or 1v3 potential) whereas the 1895 Trench requires careful planning to fully reload effectively. The 1895 Trench also has terrible ranged potential and requires headshots even to two-shot somebody past 50 meters or so.

The Russian 1895 Trench is an S-tier skillcannon; if you can score 100% headshot accuracy at all ranges, it's the best weapon in the game. Anything less and it's pure garbage. It's oh-so-satisfying to use though and not a single person will bitch at you for using the 1895 Trench to dominate them. At least not anyone with higher than a 0.3 KDR and anything resembling a frontal lobe.

The point of all of this is I want to show you a 52-kill game I got with the 1895 Trench today on Sinai Desert.

Enjoy: The Russian 1895 Trench: Skillcannon - YouTube

This was a (mostly) serious post I've been working on in various forms for a few weeks now. I'm interested in hearing what you have to think of it and my overall assessment.

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Monday, February 27th 2017, 7:26am

Definitely agree with all the ratings. The Rem 8 .35 is especially interesting as a "B", and I agree with it being that. It's really not that hard to use technically speaking, it just needs brains.
Who has fun, wins.

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Monday, February 27th 2017, 7:54am

You didn't include the Huot, Benet Mercie, or MP18 Experimental? For shame. For. Shame. :P

I wanted to see how the 1903 Experimental stacks up as I was considering using it in my skillcannon quest. Unfortunately it's getting changed to be less bad in the CTE (and therefore less skill-based)
The 1895 Trench is very possibly the worst weapon in the entire game. It is for this reason that it's the single best skillcannon available to players in Battlefield 1.

There may be a miscommunication on what denotes a 'skill-cannon.' A weapon that is just bad overall does not mean it requires 'skill' (however this is defined) to use effectively or even that it becomes skill-based in the hands of a capable player. Skill-cannons tend to have amazing stats and become dominant in practice when used proficiently, but retain severe drawbacks if not used proficiently. The 1895 Trench and 1903 Exp.? These guns are just bad, have no inherent dominant traits, and provide a weird and unnecessary close - medium range capability for Scouts when other classes excel at this role much better. Seriously, as a Scout why would one sacrifice the best long range potential for mediocre close - medium range potential?

Other than that, I agree with the remaining list and their respective analyses. At any rate, nice work. :thumbup:
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


BeefVellington

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Monday, February 27th 2017, 8:50am

You didn't include the Huot, Benet Mercie, or MP18 Experimental? For shame. For. Shame. :P

I just recently got my thousandth kill with the Huot and my five-hundredth with the 1909. They're skillcannons in a sense but not quite the one I was looking for even if I do massively enjoy both of those guns.


There may be a miscommunication on what denotes a 'skill-cannon.' A weapon that is just bad overall does not mean it requires 'skill'

It's funny you should mention the MP 18 Experimental. I actually got three service stars or so with it before deferring to the Model 10-A Slug. I ended up deciding that the Experimental isn't a true skillcannon. Rather, it's just difficult to use. An artificial handicap with no tangible benefit (even though I like it personally).

I might as well define my terms now. A skillcannon is something I consider to be a high-risk high-reward weapon which requires a combination of good technical skill (i.e. aiming) and positioning among other skills to use effectively. A much greater potential killing power is unlocked on these weapons in such cases where the user is a low-tier god skill-wise.

As for the MP 18 Experimental, it killing power at range is only marginally improved and offers significantly reduced CQC performance as a trade-off. As I mentioned earlier, it's really just a difficult gun to use and isn't necessarily better in the aggregate sense.

I was getting to the more facetious definition (i.e. shit gun a la Kolibri and 1903 Experimental) by the time I was getting ready to introduce the 1895 Trench just to improve the setup for my low-tier joke. Despite this, I do think the Trench is a sort of skillcannon in the sense I described above. Hell, it even fits your definition if only barely.

It does perform decently at most ranges but in order to unlock its godlike status it necessitates good aim above all else. Jimmy No-Thumbs is never going to get more than five kills with it before he goes back to the Automatico. BF1's equivalent to ScreaM (CS:GO headshot god) will effortlessly shit on anyone he pleases with it. In that sense it is the skillest of skillcannons.

Now obviously this weapon isn't practical and gets very close to the straight-up "bad gun" category in a vast majority of cases, especially considering how out-of-role you have to play as the Scout when using it. I just thought it would be funny to entertain the thought of the Trench being a skillcannon and then I was pleasantly surprised when my theory somewhat held up while playing against pubbie shitters.

Appreciate the feedback :D

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Monday, February 27th 2017, 4:40pm

Enjoyable read, but wheres the selbstlader 1916? I use my chin to control and tongue to click and it becomes very skillful indeed

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Monday, February 27th 2017, 5:01pm

You didn't include the Huot, Benet Mercie, or MP18 Experimental? For shame. For. Shame. :P

I just recently got my thousandth kill with the Huot and my five-hundredth with the 1909. They're skillcannons in a sense but not quite the one I was looking for even if I do massively enjoy both of those guns.


There may be a miscommunication on what denotes a 'skill-cannon.' A weapon that is just bad overall does not mean it requires 'skill'

It's funny you should mention the MP 18 Experimental. I actually got three service stars or so with it before deferring to the Model 10-A Slug. I ended up deciding that the Experimental isn't a true skillcannon. Rather, it's just difficult to use. An artificial handicap with no tangible benefit (even though I like it personally).

I might as well define my terms now. A skillcannon is something I consider to be a high-risk high-reward weapon which requires a combination of good technical skill (i.e. aiming) and positioning among other skills to use effectively. A much greater potential killing power is unlocked on these weapons in such cases where the user is a low-tier god skill-wise.

As for the MP 18 Experimental, it killing power at range is only marginally improved and offers significantly reduced CQC performance as a trade-off. As I mentioned earlier, it's really just a difficult gun to use and isn't necessarily better in the aggregate sense.

I was getting to the more facetious definition (i.e. shit gun a la Kolibri and 1903 Experimental) by the time I was getting ready to introduce the 1895 Trench just to improve the setup for my low-tier joke. Despite this, I do think the Trench is a sort of skillcannon in the sense I described above. Hell, it even fits your definition if only barely.

It does perform decently at most ranges but in order to unlock its godlike status it necessitates good aim above all else. Jimmy No-Thumbs is never going to get more than five kills with it before he goes back to the Automatico. BF1's equivalent to ScreaM (CS:GO headshot god) will effortlessly shit on anyone he pleases with it. In that sense it is the skillest of skillcannons.

Now obviously this weapon isn't practical and gets very close to the straight-up "bad gun" category in a vast majority of cases, especially considering how out-of-role you have to play as the Scout when using it. I just thought it would be funny to entertain the thought of the Trench being a skillcannon and then I was pleasantly surprised when my theory somewhat held up while playing against pubbie shitters.

Appreciate the feedback :D
The MP18 is a skill cannon in every sense, it performs better than the other types of weapons at the range it's meant to work at if and only if you have near 100% accuracy. If you don't have that accuracy, it becomes worst than just idly magdumping the automatico at range.

Because you have to stand still, and because it doesn't really reward you all that dramatically well for your 100% accuracy, it's just a bad skillcannon. But it's a skill cannon.

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Monday, February 27th 2017, 11:39pm

The 1895 Trench could be viable is it actaully had usable hipfire, that's really its main downfall.
Who has fun, wins.

BeefVellington

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Tuesday, February 28th 2017, 12:29am

The 1895 Trench could be viable is it actaully had usable hipfire, that's really its main downfall.

Absolutely. I had a 45 kill game today on Suez Canal using the Trench and had one instance in particular where I domed 5 people in a row with the hipfire w/ gas mask on. If it was a bit more reliable in those situations it would be a godlike piece of kit. I really lucked out with the hipfire but it allowed me to get a glimpse of what an actually good Trench could be like. It was really something.

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Tuesday, February 28th 2017, 3:32am

......... I thought you were serious.

I love the '95 trench.

Scout's flares make it best for bayonet charging and dog tag hunting. '95 trench is the best CQC primary.

But it's also fun on it's own. Get into a balanced, low ping lobby and get in the zone and it feels amazing.

BeefVellington

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Tuesday, February 28th 2017, 4:47am

......... I thought you were serious.

I love the '95 trench.

Scout's flares make it best for bayonet charging and dog tag hunting. '95 trench is the best CQC primary.

But it's also fun on it's own. Get into a balanced, low ping lobby and get in the zone and it feels amazing.

Let me clarify just one more time. I do think it's a skillcannon and I enjoy it quite a bit. One of the single most fun weapons to do well with in the entire game and it feels extremely rewarding to get consecutive kills with. I wouldn't place it in the S-tier though. I'm actually not well-practiced enough with it to get a good feel for the placement in my imaginary tier list yet.

UPDATE: I just had a 36-1 game with the Trench on Giant's Shadow which lasted 14 minutes. Skillcannon status confirmed.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "BeefVellington" (Feb 28th 2017, 7:05am)