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BeefVellington

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 1:13am

The pseudo-IFV Light Tank configuration is OP.

The Flanker Light Tank kit is probably one of the biggest frustration factors I'm having to deal with in Battlefield 1 at the moment. Let me be clear to start with; I am fully aware the balancing factor is the fact that it's fairly ineffective vs. other armored targets. This is apparent if you've ever tried to use the thing vs. a Heavy Tank. It doesn't go well. The problem is that this isn't nearly enough to balance is properly.

The Flanker's primary weapon (and only weapon for that matter) is the 20mm Autocannon of the same type located on the Airship, Bomber, Torpedo Boat etc. and can fire fifteen rounds in a row fully automatically before it has to reload. The reload time is fairly swift relative to the cooldown on the aircraft variants at only a few seconds at most. From what I've seen and experienced for myself there's no real penalty for firing the weapon as often as you can reasonably manage. It's extremely effective vs. infantry with its wide splash damage radius and low amount of shots required to kill with said splash. There is a large degree of error you can have in the usage of your weapon and not suffer any real penalty. It has a fairly low muzzle velocity and therefore requires a large amount of lead to use at range but there's obviously no (meaningful) recoil and the large amount of spread in fully automatic fire is mostly mitigated by the generous splash damage range of the projectiles.

The main problem I'm having with this whole setup is how effective the Flanker is at countering its counters. The intended role is to locate and take out infantry threats and this is something it does this very well. My main issue is that outside of using your own armor against it, it's fairly difficult to take down as a squad or hinder/distract as a solo player. I find that even fighting the Heavy Tank is a fairly simple procedure as a single Assault player. Get in a position behind it (dare I say, flank it) and pepper it with Rocket Guns until it's forced to deal with you. It's not very maneuverable and the tanker is completely reliant on his gunners to take down flanking threats. As simple as the Heavy Tank is to use, it requires at least some consideration in terms of positioning from the Tanker. The Flanker Light Tank by and large can get away with a huge amount of positioning which would be questionable on other tanks.

The Flanker LT however is a completely different story. Its turret offers a 360 degree range of movement to the driver. If you or your squad do commit to a flank or decide to get in an advantageous position to fight the Flanker Light Tank, you really only have one opportunity to deal meaningful damage to it. After the driver discovers your position, it's only a matter of swiveling the gun 180 degrees and peppering you and your squad to death with a massive volume of fire, even behind large amounts of cover in many cases due to the generous splash damage.

Even in comparison to the other Light Tank variant whose turret offers a 360-degree range of movement (the Close Support package w/ 37mm main cannon), the tanker still needs good aim and needs to take (relatively) careful consideration before each shot he takes, lest he waste ammunition. The Flanker really can just get away with firing haphazardly and even if the tanker manages to somehow miss every single shot, he'll have another fifteen rounds of fully automatic death ready to roll in no time at all.

What I'm getting at is that most other tanks in the game have some sort of meaningful drawbacks which serve to balance them with and against the other tanks. They're definitely not perfect (I could go on about the Heavy Tank being the easiest-to-use casual-tier vehicle in the entire game but I digress). The Flanker Light Tank absolutely has some downsides but in a situation where your own armor has been commandeered by an Artillery Trucker who's got more kills than IQ points (or just isn't available for whatever reason), those downsides mostly disappear. Even getting a mobility kill on the Flanker isn't enough as its Track Repair allows it to escape almost certain death vs. incoming groups of Rocket Gunners.

There is one tank I have as of yet failed to mention and that's the Howitzer Light Tank. It's got an extremely powerful 75mm cannon as its primary weapon which can mobility kill most vehicles in one shot. In addition it has a Hotchkiss machine gun as its secondary to deal with infantry targets. It's also got Emergency Repair and a Smoke Screen so it can peace out of many seemingly dire combat situations on a whim. The only thing that prevents this variant of the Light Tank from being blatantly overpowered is the fact that the it doesn't have the traditional 360-degree swivel turret of the standard FT-17. The primary gun is restricted exclusively to firing directly in front of the tank and slightly to either side. This means traditional flanks are very effective against it without any additional infantry backup to defend it. The Flanker by comparison can reasonably solo entire squads with zero backup.

It might not be super authentic (but then again I don't think any FT-17s were fitted with HE Autocannons) but I think given the possible options, the best way to balance out the Flanker LT right now would be to restrict its range of motion to the front-facing 180 degrees or so. This isn't as severe of a restriction as the Howitzer but it prevents the Flanker from instantly countering infantry flanks as soon as they happen. The FT-17 already has some additional protection from the rear in the form of downward-deflecting armor plates and a fairly good turning radius/speed so it wouldn't be completely helpless. It would just be far less easy for a tanker to mitigate his own bad positioning (the absolute biggest problem as it comes to the high ease of use) if this were the case.

I've been collecting my thoughts on the subject of the Flanker Light Tank for quite some time now. In the past month in particular, I've noticed a huge uptake in the amount of people running this Light Tank package. I've also been playing as Assault much more lately as I've been using the Model 10-A Slug so of course I'm having more opportunities to take these things on head-to-head as infantry.

Thoughts? Criticism? "Git gud"? I'm eager to hear what you have to say.

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 1:28am

All it needs is removal of infinite ammo, so it starts with 15/45 ammo and need to wait for resupply, like for other tanks in BF1 and ALL tanks/IFVs in BF4.
For Mark V autocannot change to 15/75 or even 15/90.
Currently it's OP as HELL in RUSH, my record is 63-0 in it on Monte Grappa as attack.
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.

BeefVellington

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 1:31am

All it needs is removal of infinite ammo, so it starts with 15/45 ammo and need to wait for resupply, like for other tanks in BF1 and ALL tanks/IFVs in BF4.

This is something I had considered suggesting but I don't think it would solve the primary problem of the tank. It's definitely an issue as well, though. The first time I picked up the Flanker a few weeks back, I was actually surprised to find that it had infinite ammunition. Seems kind of nonsensical, especially considering what you mentioned about this being unique among IFV-style vehicles.

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 1:33am

I'm not committing to a specific opinion on the Light Tank itself, but as a general concept it does make sense that a Tank good against infantry but bad against Tanks would be far more powerful/useful than a Tank with the opposite specialties. What I mean by this is, Tanks aren't really for fighting other Tanks, nor do they spend a ton of time doing so. Tanks kill infantry, and fight a single engagement with an enemy Tank if one happens to show up, then they go back to killing infantry.
Who has fun, wins.

BeefVellington

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 1:46am

it does make sense that a Tank good against infantry but bad against Tanks would be far more powerful/useful than a Tank with the opposite specialties

I get the concept and actually think it's a pretty interesting idea in a game which badly needs variety. I just think it was executed poorly.

Tanks kill infantry, and fight a single engagement with an enemy Tank if one happens to show up, then they go back to killing infantry.

If the primary purpose of a Tank is to eliminate infantry, it stands to reason that the Tank which is best at dealing with infantry would be the overall best choice. I see some value in a Tank as an anti-Tank tool in and of itself but if it isn't nearly that important then that would eliminate the only downside of the Flanker. Is there something I'm missing here? I feel like I am and I can't quite see it yet.

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 1:54am

If the primary purpose of a Tank is to eliminate infantry, it stands to reason that the Tank which is best at dealing with infantry would be the overall best choice. I see some value in a Tank as an anti-Tank tool in and of itself but if it isn't nearly that important then that would eliminate the only downside of the Flanker. Is there something I'm missing here? I feel like I am and I can't quite see it yet.


Right, I'm agreeing with you. If the Flanker is balanced to be effective against infantry to the same degree the Tank Hunter is against Tanks, while the Flanker is weak against tanks to the same degree the Tank Hunter is weak to infantry, the Flanker will be far better. I'm not saying they're actually good/bad to the same degrees, but if all else is equal, an infantry-focused tank will always be the best option.
Who has fun, wins.

BeefVellington

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 1:58am

If the primary purpose of a Tank is to eliminate infantry, it stands to reason that the Tank which is best at dealing with infantry would be the overall best choice. I see some value in a Tank as an anti-Tank tool in and of itself but if it isn't nearly that important then that would eliminate the only downside of the Flanker. Is there something I'm missing here? I feel like I am and I can't quite see it yet.

Right, I'm agreeing with you. If the Flanker is balanced to be effective against infantry to the same degree the Tank Hunter is against Tanks, while the Flanker is weak against tanks to the same degree the Tank Hunter is weak to infantry, the Flanker will be far better. I'm not saying they're actually good/bad to the same degrees, but if all else is equal, an infantry-focused tank will always be the best option.

Oh, I see now how you meant.

How would you balance it? Or is that the part you haven't committed to?

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 2:09am

How would you balance it? Or is that the part you haven't committed to?


I've literally been in the Flanker once, and I haven't seen it too often either. I didn't even realize it had infinite ammo, but this is almost definitely where it should be looked at, considering ammo pools are how all the other tanks work. I'm also not sure why it actually needs both HE and canister ammo.
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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 2:10am

The Flanker is just a ground-hugging BF3 AH Cannon which is why I enjoy it so much.

No penalty for mindlessly expending ammo.

Avoiding tanks or baiting them into AT Mines isn't exactly hard either.

At least it's squishy.
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Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 2:11am

I don't see how this is a problem. All deployable vehicles (including planes) are intentionally designed to have an advantage against infantry. Even the vehicle variants with crappy anti-infantry weapons have an advantage over the average Assault. They each have a degree of specialization that makes them better at certain roles and worse at others. The Flanker LT happens to be the best in its class at mowing down squishies, in exchange for crap anti-tank performance.

If the blueberries on your team are not thinking about countering a Flanker with a vehicle equipped with better AT capabilities, they are asking to get 44-0'd. You might as well take the initiative yourself and get a better anti-tank vehicle yourself. Pray that your teammates are competent enough to snipe the tank with an artillery truck or engage it with a Landship/Heavy tank.

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Any Landship with an intelligent, coordinated crew counters any Heavy tank crew of equal skill. Even a Howitzer tank puts up a good fight against it, and Artillery Trucks can just stand back and snipe the tank.

The Flanker tank will be just as vulnerable as any other vehicle if he is not paying attention to his position. Teams that are paying attention to major threats will immediately focus a Flanker with explosives, and a Flanker is most likely going to die if it does not have an escape route.