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Heretic

Posts: 210

Date of registration
: Dec 21st 2016

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Spokane, WA, USA

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 4:07am

So in a heated discussion about the CTE patch here: Nerf to SLRs is ludicrous
The topic of ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale was brought up

"is isn't a nerf. The change of ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale from 0.4 to 0.8 makes big difference, especially for slower firing SLRs.

That value determines how much recoil decrease is applied while the weapon is firing, as in since the weapon has fired, but before it can fire again. Recoil decrease is based on a cubic function of time since the last shot was fired. For the slow firing SLRs you'd have very slow recoil decrease, 0.4x "normal" decrease for several frames, then suddenly jump to 2.5x the decrease when the weapon was able to fire again. This was less noticeable on the faster SLRs since they had the slow decrease for fewer frames.

Now the difference between firing and non-firing recoil decrease is really small, and the shooting recoil decrease is twice what it was before. Overall recovery time should be almost unchanged, this change will just make recoil feel smoother, especially for slow SLRs. Given that the RSC is the slowest SLR yet, it probably made the issue apparent, which is why it's being fixed."
-Labby

So in my thread, I brought up the fact that most SLRs are getting a horizontal recoil increase from anywhere between 1.6X to 1.8X The issue of ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale has brought up some questions:

1) does ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale effect the recoil decrease of the weapon while recoil is actually happening?
2) If not, does ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale begin to effect the weapon one recoil has hit its maximum magnitude?
3) how much of a difference does ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale make
4) does ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale fight against/counteract recoil as it happens?
Official heretic of the Symthic forums. Avid M1907 factory user and complete casual pleb.
Iplaysgames96 - Profile Overview - Battlefield 1 Tracker

Posts: 294

Date of registration
: Jun 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 4:38am

I am also interested in this topic. BTW, does the change in ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale apply to all weapons? If so it may mean that automatic storm weapons get a bigger buff than automatic factory/LW weapons because storm weapons rely more on recoil decrease in between shots, while factory/LW variants rely more on recoil decrease in between bursts.

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 4:51am

This scaling factor, in the current Winter Update stats, is 0.4 for SLRs, 0.8 for Shotguns, and 0.0 for everything else. Sidearms and single actions are 1.0.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

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AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
MaxAcceleration::Vec2
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YawSpeedStrength 1.0
PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
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y 1.2
AttractSoftZone 0.75
AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 1.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.34
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
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SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
MaxAcceleration::Vec2
x 2.0
y 2.0
YawSpeedStrength 1.0
PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
x 1.0
y 1.2
AttractSoftZone 0.0
AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 0.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.0
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
MaxAcceleration::Vec2
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YawSpeedStrength 1.0
PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
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AttractSoftZone 0.75
AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 1.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.34
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$tho This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Feb 21st 2017, 4:57am) Heretic Posts: 210 Date of registration : Dec 21st 2016 Platform: Xbox One Location: Spokane, WA, USA Battlelog: Reputation modifier: 3 Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 4:57am Quoted from "JSLICE20" This scaling factor, in the current Winter Update stats, is 0.4 for SLRs, 0.8 for Shotguns, and 0.0 for everything else (not including sidearms). But does this scaling factor and ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale effect the recoil as it happens or after recoil starts to settle? Official heretic of the Symthic forums. Avid M1907 factory user and complete casual pleb. Iplaysgames96 - Profile Overview - Battlefield 1 Tracker Posts: 3,292 Date of registration : Apr 26th 2013 Platform: PS4 Location: Arizona, USA Reputation modifier: 15 Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 5:05am I don't know. I was responding to sid_tai. To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question. Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why: Default Aim Assist Data Source code 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38  AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98 AccelerationMultiplier 5.0 AccelerationDamping 4.0 AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15 SquaredAcceleration 0.0 MaxAcceleration::Vec2 x 2.0 y 2.0 YawSpeedStrength 1.0 PitchSpeedStrength 1.0 AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2 x 1.0 y 1.2 AttractSoftZone 0.75 AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45 AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5 AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0 AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85 AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0 AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1 AttractMoveInputCap 0.0 AttractYawStrength 1.0 AttractPitchStrength 0.34 MaxToTargetAngle 45.0 MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0 ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0 SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0 SnapZoomTime 0.2 SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2 SnapZoomPostTime 0.2 SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999 SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0 SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2 SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2 SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0 SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2 SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid* CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0 No Slowdown Data Source code 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39  AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98 AccelerationMultiplier 5.0 AccelerationDamping 4.0 AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15 SquaredAcceleration 0.0 MaxAcceleration::Vec2 x 2.0 y 2.0 YawSpeedStrength 1.0 PitchSpeedStrength 1.0 AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2 x 1.0 y 1.2 AttractSoftZone 0.0 AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0 AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0 AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0 AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0 AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0 AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0 AttractMoveInputCap 0.0 AttractYawStrength 0.0 AttractPitchStrength 0.0 MaxToTargetAngle 45.0 MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0 ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0 SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0 SnapZoomTime 0.2 SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0 SnapZoomPostTime 0.0 SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999 SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0 SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0 SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2 SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0 SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5 SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid* CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0 DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0 No Auto Rotation Data Source code 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39   AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98 AccelerationMultiplier 5.0 AccelerationDamping 4.0 AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15 SquaredAcceleration 0.0 MaxAcceleration::Vec2 x 2.0 y 2.0 YawSpeedStrength 1.0 PitchSpeedStrength 1.0 AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2 x 1.0 y 1.2 AttractSoftZone 0.75 AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45 AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5 AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0 AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85 AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0 AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1 AttractMoveInputCap 0.0 AttractYawStrength 1.0 AttractPitchStrength 0.34 MaxToTargetAngle 45.0 MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0 ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0 SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0 SnapZoomTime 0.2 SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0 SnapZoomPostTime 0.0 SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999 SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0 SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0 SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2 SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0 SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5 SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid* CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0 DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0 Prepare your laughbox Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x" the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

Posts: 294

Date of registration
: Jun 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 5:19am

Quoted from "JSLICE20"

This scaling factor, in the current Winter Update stats, is 0.4 for SLRs, 0.8 for Shotguns, and 0.0 for everything else. Sidearms and single actions are 1.0.

Interesting. This same parameter is 0.1 in BF4, which corresponds to the "recoil decrease before your weapon is available to fire again" term in the recoil decrease equation. So for SMGs and LMGs, there is no recoil decrease until the next shot is available to fire. I can see why the storm variants are sooooo good now =D.

Heretic

Posts: 210

Date of registration
: Dec 21st 2016

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Spokane, WA, USA

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 5:25am

Quoted from "JSLICE20"

This scaling factor, in the current Winter Update stats, is 0.4 for SLRs, 0.8 for Shotguns, and 0.0 for everything else. Sidearms and single actions are 1.0.

Interesting. This same parameter is 0.1 in BF4, which corresponds to the "recoil decrease before your weapon is available to fire again" term in the recoil decrease equation. So for SMGs and LMGs, there is no recoil decrease until the next shot is available to fire. I can see why the storm variants are sooooo good now =D.
When you say "recoil decrease before your weapon is available to fire again" Does that mean that recoil decrease is occurring while the weapon is recoiling upward or only after recoil has began to settle?
Official heretic of the Symthic forums. Avid M1907 factory user and complete casual pleb.
Iplaysgames96 - Profile Overview - Battlefield 1 Tracker

Posts: 294

Date of registration
: Jun 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 5:42am

Quoted from "JSLICE20"

This scaling factor, in the current Winter Update stats, is 0.4 for SLRs, 0.8 for Shotguns, and 0.0 for everything else. Sidearms and single actions are 1.0.

Interesting. This same parameter is 0.1 in BF4, which corresponds to the "recoil decrease before your weapon is available to fire again" term in the recoil decrease equation. So for SMGs and LMGs, there is no recoil decrease until the next shot is available to fire. I can see why the storm variants are sooooo good now =D.
When you say "recoil decrease before your weapon is available to fire again" Does that mean that recoil decrease is occurring while the weapon is recoiling upward or only after recoil has began to settle?

I am not sure on that. What I said about recoil decrease was my knowledge based on the thread that contains the recoil decrease forumula in BF4.

Symthic Developer

Posts: 3,750

Date of registration
: Mar 21st 2013

Platform: PC

Location: __main__, Finland

Reputation modifier: 17

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 11:29am

To best of my knowledge ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale works like in BF4, i.e. while firing your recoil decreases at the rate RecoilDecrease*ShootingRecoilDecreaseScale.

I could be off though. Still haven't put up the recoil formula on Symthic.
• 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
• InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
• leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
• Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
• pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
• Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,836

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 12:08pm

Now, while I can not interpret the size of the effect, this seems like a huge change in how weapons work statwise, while in-game they should work roughly the same, right?

So if this seems like a huge nerf to everyone, for DICE and people with deep insights it is just a couple of numbers juggled around, likely for simplification so that you can bring certain weapon classes on the whole up to par easily. This does seem like a decent change for the devs, I can see the thinking behind it, if my interpretation is right.

However, I think I am a rather educated person and a regular on symthic, but even I do not understand the stuff some regulars here talk about. Now I believe the mechanics of shooting were pretty much straightforward in BF3 and 4, and BF1 made it more complex to differentiate and make some disregarded stats relevant. This was hard to understand for me, but justified because of how weapons worked in WW1, so adjustments needed to be made. So even this recoilscale thing is sensible, I guess, to me as a studied person, while hard to grasp the effect it really has.

Yet, we have seen that people, while grasping the idea of stats before, have more trouble interpreting changes now. I mean we see potential OP-weapons being drastically underused because people can not understand the potential of the mechanics. So obviously with these changes they see nerfs all around because DICE somehow made a stat relevant, even I have never heard of.
Before I could totally judge how a weapon performed from a simple look at the stats here, or even on battlelog, but now I have to make an in-depth analysis and even then I am not sure whether I uderstood it. So while it makes sense for Labby, Noctyrne and most of you guys that do this on a daily basis, but how is the average player, that thought he understood the BF4 mechanics going to grasp this, without making mistakes in the analysis?

Also, we have had great "influencers" getting stats wrong and drawing false conclusions, how are they going to explain recoilscale to their audience? Battlefield had understandable mechanics for everyone and while they now might achieve some kind of balance with their changes, I can not see how DICE can explain it to their playerbase, or even how symthic is supposed to show accurate, yet understandable data to someone who has not had a college education. We might as well replace the stats with a pro/contra list.