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  • "Dantheminigunfox" started this thread

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Friday, February 17th 2017, 8:01pm

Speculative; Thematic visual list of interesting WW1 weaponry

*Note: SLRS and other weapon types will be added gradually, photoshopping the images is taking a while. I will post them on this thread via edits
Pretty self explanatory, just a list of some weapons with a brief description and highlights. Feel free to post more and they will be added to this post. So lets get started :]. Post features 1280x720 images hidden using the spoiler function. Did this to make it a bit more appealing than your typical text list.
(Most of these weapons are can be found at Forgottenweapons.com which is very well designed and is a must for anyone remotely interested in historical and often obscure weaponry)

Sub machine guns

William Andrews American Prototype

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A blowback smg design with an unorthodox feed system featuring a rotating turret consisting of 10 M1911 magazines giving a total of 70 rounds of ammunition. I did not quite get how the magazine worked, would assume that it would autorotate in game, as manually rotating it would be.. awkward.
Links;

Forgotten weapons

Furrer 1919/MP1919

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Yes it was produced in 1919 but hear me out. Not only do we currently have guns that almost certainly never saw any combat (Hellriegel, Cei Rigotti,Selbstlader 1906, M1903 experimental) we also have some such as the Autoloading .25 which features a configuration that was produced during the 1920s. With that out of the way, this is a toggle lock SMG based on the C-93/P08 design. The action was also side mounted and fed from a rather large 40 round magazine holding the 7.63x25mm round seen in the Mauser C96 pistol. The Model used in the image was done by Ethan Hiley on Polycount
Links;
Forgotten weapons


Furrer M1919 Double

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A different configuration based on the Furrer MP1919 as was fairly common place for rapid fire weapons during this time period. Basically two toggle lock SMGS glued t one trigger with a total of 80 rounds of 7.62x25mm Mauser rounds.
Links;
Forgotten Weapons

Maxim 08/18 SMG prototype

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A prototype SMG developed by the German empire. It is based on the MG08/18 LMG but uses what is known as a strip clip column feed system. This is similar to a full size machine gun, the Fiat-Rivelli 1914. This a 'clip' consisting of 8 columns each with 10 rounds of 9mm Parabellum. I think the clip auto ejects out the side of the gun in a similar way to the Benet Mercie', however do not quote me on that one.
Links;
Forgotten weapons

Moschetto Automatico OVP 1918

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A competitor to the Beretta Modello 1918 (Automatico 1918 ), this is a different take on modifying the existing M15 Vilar Perosa aircraft machine gun. I think it looks pretty neat with much more metal parts and a longer body versus the mostly wooden furniture found on the Automatico. Interestingly, variants in .455 webley existed, which could be an excuse for introducing the 'AS VAL' of BF1, e.g 700 RPM 27 - 12 DMG model paired with a very small mag, high recoil and poor M/S and drag coef. Interestingly, the gun has a double trigger akin to an MG34, which could mean that one of them is single shot only. (According to C&R arsenal, the Vilar Perosa was called the 'half fart' by the Italians due to its 1800 - 3000 RPM rate of fire)
Links;
C&R Arsenal Image page

Villar Perosa M15

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[img]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/bf1918/images/c/ca/Villar_Perosa_Modello_1915.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20131022143033[/img]
I am very much aware that this is a sentry weapon. However, the 'longer' version of this gun could very well be an assault kit SMG. The inspiration for this came from a Battlefield 1942 mod appropriately named Battlefield 1918. It looks damn cool in first person, however the third person model is somewhat wrong as the player seems to be gripping an invisible stock. I am sure it would not be a stretch for dice to include a stock and conventional trigger as is sometimes seen during a brief google search. Would be a very interesting weapon to balance and certainly looks the part
Links;
C&R Arsenal Image page

Thompson Persuader and Annihilator 1918

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Yes, THAT thompson. This iconic weapon was actually built for trench combat as was given the unsubtle nickname, 'Trench broom'. Several of these guns were shipped to France, h owever the war ended before they reached their intended destination. Imagine an allied 1919 Spring offensive with Thompson, BAR, and Pedersen Device rifles wielding storm troopers, if only Dice didnt just say 'Screw it! Its alternative WW1!'. The one pictured is the earlier Persuader model.
Links;
Gunwiki


Honorable mentions;
Luger P08, Steyr 1912 and Mauser C96 full auto conversions
Dopplepistole M.12. (Did not add these last ones as good images of them are hard to come by, as well as them technically not being SMGS and the fact that the assault class also has Shotguns)
--------------------------------------------------------------------END OF SMGS---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light Machine guns; (*Everything INCOMPLETE below)

Burton Light Machine Rifle 1917 (LMR 1917)


Very interesting automatic rifle with a unique looking magazine system. Personally I think it strongly resembles early versions of the FG42, allbeit with a more imposing feed system. Not sure if the magazine mechanic would be implemented in game, I strongly suggest you watch the video Ian made about it. Fascinating, especially considering this was one of the first assault rifles, and the designers never knew it.

Links;
Forgotten Weapons



Browning M1917


A relatively light water cooled machine gun used by US forces. Chose this weapon as it is one of the more compact water cooled MGs and something a soldier can carry and use effectively, assuming battlefield logic. (It is not much heavier than an MG08/15)
Links;


Colt M1895 'Potato Digger'
A rather bland boxy looking machine gun, until it starts firing. The interesting thing about this weapon is the visible actuating lever which arcs beneath the barrel. Some liberaties can be taken, such as adding in a stock to make it look more portable. Alternativly a diffrent wielding animation would work as well
Links
Modern Firearms
Forgotten Weapons
Darne
Dreyse M1918/MG13

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Quite the obscure LMG. Reading up on this weapon usually results in the WW2 MG30 which is based off the original WW1 gun. Images of the original are very hard t o find, the closest I got was a photo taken in January 1920 of it mounted to a scout car. The image I used was taken from modernfirearms but it is very likely to be the WW2 version. Regardless, due to the obscurity of this weapon and its WW1 roots, perhaps implementing a similar design in game would be quite fitting. Whats even more puzzling is that the MG13's magazine in that image seems strikingly similar to the Mauser Selbstlader 1916, a comment which was mentioned in that gun's video by Forgotten weapons

Links;
Modern Firearms

Fiat Revelli 1917
Farqhuar Hill 1918
Federov Avtomat 1916
Lewis Automatic Rifle 1918
A prototype weapon designed to compete with the BAR 1918.
Lewis - Savage 1918

Essentially the aircraft version of the lewis which we already find in game. Features a 97 round magazine and an air cooled barrel. (The 97 round magazine is not modeled on the Lewis gun suppresive variant)
MG08/18

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This gun is an improved version of the MG08/15 featured as a hipfire weapon. MG08/15's were used as shock troop weapons as well as the more common defensive roles. This version features a perforated air cooled barrel, similar to that of the MG15 n.A. I included this solely as I wanted the MG08/15 to be a normal infantry LMG pre release and this seems like a good way to do so while making it look a bit diffrent. Balancing is not the point of this post but I do envision this as a very slow firing (350 - 400RPM) hard hitting LMG with a 100+ capacity. It would fill a similar role to the MG15 n.A in the sense that it would favour defensive play. This one would push that niche further by improving the defensive aspect while reduce its offensive capability.

For anyone who has played Verdun. this was added in a DLC.

Parabellum MG14
Rossignol ENT
SIA Modello 1918

Honourable mentions;
Mondragon '1910' LMG variant. Did not make an image of this as there are no images however it could use 32 and even 100 round drums.


------------------------------------------------------------------------END OF LMGS------------------------------------------------------------------------
Self Loading Rifles
General Liu Rifle
Hague Rifle
Mannlicher 1885
Mannlicher M95 Conversion
Madsen Rasmusen 1896
Madsen Bjarnov 1888
Menier A6
Sjorgen Inertia Rifle
Terni M91 Carcano conversion


Single Action Rifles

Berthier RiflesEnfield 1917
Mondragon 1894
Kraag-Jorgensen
Murata Rifle(s)
Sharps Rifle 1856
Mosin Nagant 1891
Jezial Rifle




This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Dantheminigunfox" (Feb 17th 2017, 8:58pm)


Gecko99

thank mr skeltal

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Saturday, February 18th 2017, 4:45am

Nice list, though there are several things I would like to talk about.
On the subject of SMGs the Furrer M1919 Double and Villar Perosa M15, while both guns are cool as hell I don't think we will get a twin-barrel gun for any non-elite class as there is not many ways you can make them anything but OP, also while we are on the subject of the Villar Perosa I don't think the OVP is unique enough from the Beretta 1918 SMG.
On the subject of LMGs I think the Fedorov Avtomat and Farquar Hill Rifle are more suited to the Medic class as they are SLRs by definition and would suit the Medic role better anyways, on the same note as the OVP I don't think we will get the Savage Lewis gun due to similarities to the Lewis we already have(though it would be cool as hell if they modified the Suppressive Lewis's visual model) and we will either get the Parabellum MG14 or MG08/18, not both as they are just modifications of the MG08(though I really want at least one of them to be added).
P.S I think me, you and Iplaysgames96 might be violating Symthic community rules as it states in rule 5: do not post unless you have something new and worthwhile to say.
Do not bump, quote for truth, cross-post, or post only to say thanks, The Reputation system is there for that purpose. We don't want to hear your funny story about something that happened in your round last night, your baseless speculation is unproductive, and your idea for a new ability really isn't that interesting. If you have an idea you'd like to share with the community, support it with analysis, testing, or both that indicates you've put some thought into it.

I don't think we will get in trouble but we should probably take it down a notch with the speculation.
Autoloading 8 .25 extended user.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Gecko99" (Feb 18th 2017, 4:57am)


  • "Dantheminigunfox" started this thread

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Saturday, February 18th 2017, 10:04am

@Gecko99Double Barrel SMGS
I think with the Villar and 1919 Perosa, they could adopt something which was seen in Bad company 2's MG3 damage model. which was a 1000RPM LMG with a 11.2 - 10 damage model. Perhaps they could be spray and pray smg's similar to what the Skorpion is in Hardline, sacrificing damage for large magazine counts and target saturation. (Bad Company 2 Stats )


Avtomat and Farquhuar
The Avtomat and Farqhaur hill could very well be medic rifles, especially the avtomat. Only listed them as light machine guns because of their relatively large capacities. The Farqhaur hill actually came with an option for 65 round magazines, perhaps shifting it towards the suppressive rule. One could also say the same thing about the Mondragon 1908 as it had 32 round magazines for use in aerial combat and also mentions of an LMG version in service with the Mexican army. Mentions of 100 round magazines also exist though the latter is a bit hard to believe as their is no credible citations outside a mention on gunswiki. I cannot imagine a regular 100 round magazine of 8mm rounds, would be obscenely heavy.


OVP 1918
OVP 1918 looks different enough to me though its 1st person model is questionable [I think the longer style and mostly metallic body is enough].


MG08/Lewis gun/MG14
The MG08/18 looks quite similar to the MG15 n.A so I doubt it will ever be included. The MG14 is more distinctive due to its rounded perforated barrel, overall smaller dimensions and large exposed belt magazine. In my opinion the regular MG08/15 with its chunky water cooled barrel would be much more interesting as a support weapon. The same applies for the Lewis savage, and yes they really should add the 97 round magazine to Lewis Suppresive, find it odd that they didn't considering its already in game in the form of an aerial gun.


Rules
Regarding rules, I feel that the post is new content as I have not seen a comprehensive visual representation of WW1 weapons, especially not an organised one. Moreover, there are many posts in this section which have no technical analysis what so ever and are merely questions or to incite opinion.


The goals of this post are too;
-Be as organised as possible to serve as an archive
-Be referenced with the correct sources and promote 'weapon awarness' to displace the 'There are not many weapons in WW1 myth'
-Collect other weapons which the author has not come across
-Provide a visual archive of various weapon types including very obscure ones


What this post isn't
- Suggesting what SHOULD be added to the game ( A wishlist )
- A balancing proposition, not in any detail anyway


This post as a whole was just to give a more interesting visual representation in one easily accessible place of rarely mentioned WW1 weapons. It is essentially an archive. If it is in breach than let it will be removed.

Gecko99

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Saturday, February 18th 2017, 6:51pm

@ Dantheminigunfox I like your idea for the double barrel smgs, it would stray from bullet damage models but considering the LMG's essentially fire the same round as the BAs in game I don't think it's the end of the world.
Also if you don't mind can you upload a picture of the Lewis Automatic Rifle? I can't find anything on it.
Sorry if I came of sounding rude earlier, I really like talking about DLC weapons and I'm afraid I sometimes come off in a "matter of fact" way.
Autoloading 8 .25 extended user.