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: Jun 15th 2015

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11

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 3:42am

simple reason why it can be awesome beside better hipfire(which does matter!)SHORT PULL BOLT. You can take follow up shots while ADS

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12

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 3:48am

simple reason why it can be awesome beside better hipfire(which does matter!)SHORT PULL BOLT. You can take follow up shots while ADS


All Infantry and Carbine rifles can cycle the bolt while aiming, so it's a bit of a moot point when comparing the two. The only gun that's special in this regard is the Gewehr M.95 Marksman, which also happens to be my favourite BA.
Who has fun, wins.

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13

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 6:04am

Those scope markings on the carbine sight are much smaller than the thick posts of the infantry, which does make it easier to engage targets at ranges where iron sight obscure the player model.

It's exactly why they exist in the real world.

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14

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 6:51am

So basically, Carbine is the ease-of-use option, with its better and higher zoom optics, and better hipfire, while Infantry is the harder-but-better option, with its faster ADS, faster recoil recover, faster spread recovery, and zeroing ability.

You sacrifice quite a lot for that lens sight.
Who has fun, wins.

Zer0Cod3x

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15

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 7:08am

So basically, Carbine is the ease-of-use option, with its better and higher zoom optics, and better hipfire, while Infantry is the harder-but-better option, with its faster ADS, faster recoil recover, faster spread recovery, and zeroing ability.

You sacrifice quite a lot for that lens sight.

Well, not exactly.


The Infantry has better SDEC, sure. But that really doesn't matter in ADS, considering that the SIPS for all sniper rifles are 0. The SDEC only really matters in hipfire, and Carbine variants have much more accurate hipfire.

Faster recoil reset doesn't matter that much, as your sight bounces around whilst rechambering anyway.


It's really only the faster ADS time and zeroing.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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: Mar 19th 2014

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16

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 7:10am

The Infantry has better SDEC, sure. But that really doesn't matter in ADS, considering that the SIPS for all sniper rifles are 0.


Isn't that leaving out moving spread, and recovery from it?
Who has fun, wins.

Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

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: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

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17

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 7:14am

The Infantry has better SDEC, sure. But that really doesn't matter in ADS, considering that the SIPS for all sniper rifles are 0.


Isn't that leaving out moving spread, and recovery from it?

Why are you strafing whilst shooting if your optimal engagement range is 40 metres or more?

In any case, I'd much rather take the Carbine's better ADS moving spread than the Infantry's better spread recovery times.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


Posts: 3,429

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: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

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18

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 7:21am

Why are you strafing whilst shooting if your optimal engagement range is 40 metres or more?

In any case, I'd much rather take the Carbine's better ADS moving spread than the Infantry's better spread recovery times.


Not strafing and shooting, strafing then shooting.
Who has fun, wins.

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: Aug 24th 2016

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19

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 5:15pm

Or removing ability to attach bayonet on non-infantry scout rifles(except M1903 Experimental), but there would be too much whine.


Not useful if you don't use bayonets, just like the lack of zeroing on Carbines.

Also, the two Carbines, 1895 Trench, and Martini-Henry are the only BAs I actually have bayonets on.


Neither the 1895 nor the M-H are bolt actions.