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NoctyrneSAGA

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21

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 2:37am

If the Behemoth has to be effective in the hands of an idiot, it will become unstoppable in the hands of someone who knows what to do.

We do not need a repeat of BF4 Attack Helicopters.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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If it flies, it dies™.

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22

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 2:41am

If the Behemoth has to be effective in the hands of an idiot, it will become unstoppable in the hands of someone who knows what to do.

We do not need a repeat of BF4 Attack Helicopters.


Not true. If it has both a low skill floor and a low skill ceiling it won't really matter who's using it. That is the most important purpose of comp players, to ensure the skill ceilings of various things are low enough that they can't dominate.
Who has fun, wins.

NoctyrneSAGA

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23

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 2:42am

Considering how many players are not capable of reaching a Behemoth's allegedly low skill floor, I do not see how you can draw any conclusions about their effectiveness.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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24

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 2:45am

As has been said, it's less the Behemoths themselves and more how late they show up in terms of ticket difference.
Who has fun, wins.

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25

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 3:28am

A few personal observations:

Behemoths seem to be spawning practically speaking every round I play these days, since they are designed to bolster a "badly" losing team, this implies a lot of "bad" losses. To me this a clear indication of a few things:

-The squad "skill balancing system" is utterly broken and provides no meaningful balance to the team - whether its a flaw in an algorithm, or because the skill number used itself is meaningless who knows, probably both.

-The maps: The maps are highly linear, massively favouring a well dug in team that digs in at the very start of a round. If you do succeed in back-capping it is very difficult to exploit that into more map control for your team.

- Tickets are kill-based and less drain based than before, which means that to recover you need to control the map, and get the whole team into a position where it can start out killing. That is exceptionally hard. The airship or train can help you get flag control, but it likely can't sustain more than a ~50 ticket outkilling before it dies, not enough to bring the round back.

- Tank bug decides more rounds than behemoths. It's not just that you lose your tanks, they can get up to double tanks and you zero.

The behemoths can rarely turn matches around without exceptional sets of circumstances. I think this is actually good design if you're committed to the behemoth mechanic. A behemoth so powerful that it could either reliably turn back games, or even turn them back 50% of the time would be exceptionally frustrating/bad to play against.

So the behemoth system is actually in some ways designed to fail. It could never fairly be a decisive match winner anyway. Not if you wanted a game that played well in the meta sense of having a fun round.

NoctyrneSAGA

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26

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 3:32am

-The squad "skill balancing system" is utterly broken and provides no meaningful balance to the team - whether its a flaw in an algorithm, or because the skill number used itself is meaningless who knows, probably both.


IIRC, the matchmaker will attempt to keep each team's total Skill metric about the same.

Of course, the Skill metric in the first place isn't a good measure of competence in the first place.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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27

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 3:39am

-The squad "skill balancing system" is utterly broken and provides no meaningful balance to the team - whether its a flaw in an algorithm, or because the skill number used itself is meaningless who knows, probably both.


IIRC, the matchmaker will attempt to keep each team's total Skill metric about the same.

Of course, the Skill metric in the first place isn't a good measure of competence in the first place.
-The squad "skill balancing system" is utterly broken and provides no meaningful balance to the team - whether its a flaw in an algorithm, or because the skill number used itself is meaningless who knows, probably both.


IIRC, the matchmaker will attempt to keep each team's total Skill metric about the same.

Of course, the Skill metric in the first place isn't a good measure of competence in the first place.
Yeah but how does it do it? Cluster the top skilled people to one team and then fill out the ranks with the lowest ones up - putting the majority of the above avg players on the other team, which would actually be an overall advantage for said team? Split the top tier people in half and then mix and match the rest? etc.

Oscar

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28

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 3:46am

-The squad "skill balancing system" is utterly broken and provides no meaningful balance to the team - whether its a flaw in an algorithm, or because the skill number used itself is meaningless who knows, probably both.


IIRC, the matchmaker will attempt to keep each team's total Skill metric about the same.

Of course, the Skill metric in the first place isn't a good measure of competence in the first place.

This is... well just a bad system in my eyes. The skill metric fluctuates constantly and it's hard to just gauge a player based on it.

I've had peaks of "skill" at 700~ or so and the difficulty of matches hasn't really changed when skill is at its high point or low point. At least not by a noticeable amount.

If anything I'd say that there's enough players willing to switch over to the winning side that skill balancing doesn't really matter much when the "imbalance" is either there already or happens mid-match. Also worth mentioning that with how slow leaving a match can be (on console), I see a lot of players leave after the next round is over and matches begin with a difference in player count - not uncommon to see 20 vs 28 at the start of the round if the previous was lopsided.
Bro of Legion, the lurker ninja mod | Tesla FTW | RNG is evil.

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I find majority of the complaints I hear about this game somehow never appear in my games.

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29

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 3:55am

-The squad "skill balancing system" is utterly broken and provides no meaningful balance to the team - whether its a flaw in an algorithm, or because the skill number used itself is meaningless who knows, probably both.


IIRC, the matchmaker will attempt to keep each team's total Skill metric about the same.

Of course, the Skill metric in the first place isn't a good measure of competence in the first place.

This is... well just a bad system in my eyes. The skill metric fluctuates constantly and it's hard to just gauge a player based on it.

I've had peaks of "skill" at 700~ or so and the difficulty of matches hasn't really changed when skill is at its high point or low point. At least not by a noticeable amount.

If anything I'd say that there's enough players willing to switch over to the winning side that skill balancing doesn't really matter much when the "imbalance" is either there already or happens mid-match. Also worth mentioning that with how slow leaving a match can be (on console), I see a lot of players leave after the next round is over and matches begin with a difference in player count - not uncommon to see 20 vs 28 at the start of the round if the previous was lopsided.
This is a PC problem as well. Most rounds seem to start with a 5-6 player deficit on one because of people quitting out.

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30

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 3:58am

If the Behemoth has to be effective in the hands of an idiot, it will become unstoppable in the hands of someone who knows what to do.

We do not need a repeat of BF4 Attack Helicopters.
This is basically the Squad landship with two gunners and two repair monkeys. Of course you can never run a squad in the SS in practice because of all-team spawning so it generally plays like a turd when actually used.