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Unlocked the Huot, but is it a high skill weapon?

Can't get a title

Posts: 1,531

Date of registration
: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

Reputation modifier: 13

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 10:28am

I meant the optic itself, not all the other things that come with the optic.
something something Model 8 bestgun

Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:

Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Quoted from "Veritable"

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.

Posts: 2,015

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 10:31am

Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

Yes and no.

Technically, it doesn't affect weapon performance

What the frick-frack is going on here? Just using the Benet Mercie as an example:

Is this not the case or am I just insane?
Unless the Sym stats are all screwed up the Tele followed by optical have superior spreads min spreads.

This on top of the superior target aquisition and aiming on ranged targets provided by zoom optics.

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 10:35am

Ah, confusing terminology and/ or not being able to read your mind. Now I see the mindset you and SomeRandomGuy had. When I saw tank's post, I immediately knew he was referring to the Optical variant and not the aesthetic of the sight, which is why I nearly had a stroke.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

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AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
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AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
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AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
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AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
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CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
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AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 0.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.0
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
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SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
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SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
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CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
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PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
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AttractSoftZone 0.75
AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
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SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
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CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$tho This post by "iota-09" (Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 10:40am) has been deleted by user "Legion" (Sunday, February 12th 2017, 12:23pm) with the following reason: Rule 5 Posts: 2,015 Date of registration : Jan 12th 2014 Platform: PC Battlelog: Reputation modifier: 14 Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 10:45am Quoted from "JSLICE20" Ah, confusing terminology and/ or not being able to read your mind. Now I see the mindset you and SomeRandomGuy had. When I saw tank's post, I immediately knew he was referring to the Optical variant and not the aesthetic of the sight, which is why I nearly had a stroke. I don't see how the two things can be considered decoupled in BF1 considering the optics are integrated into the variant itself. You can't put a scope on a storm BM, nor use irons on a tripod BM. The various SLRs have similarly locked in optical + perf differences. Posts: 3,292 Date of registration : Apr 26th 2013 Platform: PS4 Location: Arizona, USA Reputation modifier: 15 Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 10:57am @iota-09 In summary, the Huot is the most accurate MG with the Benet Mercie following relatively close behind which essentially places these weapons in the category of BF1's 'skill cannons' based on their effective DPS when used properly and efficiently. There were counter arguments, those arguments were proven incorrect with the assistance of science (and Hitrater). That's my analysis of the discussion thus far anyhow. Others may have different opinions on the matter. To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question. Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why: Default Aim Assist Data Source code 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38  AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98 AccelerationMultiplier 5.0 AccelerationDamping 4.0 AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15 SquaredAcceleration 0.0 MaxAcceleration::Vec2 x 2.0 y 2.0 YawSpeedStrength 1.0 PitchSpeedStrength 1.0 AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2 x 1.0 y 1.2 AttractSoftZone 0.75 AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45 AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5 AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0 AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85 AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0 AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1 AttractMoveInputCap 0.0 AttractYawStrength 1.0 AttractPitchStrength 0.34 MaxToTargetAngle 45.0 MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0 ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0 SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0 SnapZoomTime 0.2 SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2 SnapZoomPostTime 0.2 SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999 SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0 SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2 SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2 SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0 SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2 SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid* CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0 No Slowdown Data Source code 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39  AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98 AccelerationMultiplier 5.0 AccelerationDamping 4.0 AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15 SquaredAcceleration 0.0 MaxAcceleration::Vec2 x 2.0 y 2.0 YawSpeedStrength 1.0 PitchSpeedStrength 1.0 AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2 x 1.0 y 1.2 AttractSoftZone 0.0 AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0 AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0 AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0 AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0 AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0 AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0 AttractMoveInputCap 0.0 AttractYawStrength 0.0 AttractPitchStrength 0.0 MaxToTargetAngle 45.0 MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0 ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0 SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0 SnapZoomTime 0.2 SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0 SnapZoomPostTime 0.0 SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999 SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0 SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0 SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2 SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0 SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5 SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid* CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0 DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0 No Auto Rotation Data Source code 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39   AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98 AccelerationMultiplier 5.0 AccelerationDamping 4.0 AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15 SquaredAcceleration 0.0 MaxAcceleration::Vec2 x 2.0 y 2.0 YawSpeedStrength 1.0 PitchSpeedStrength 1.0 AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2 x 1.0 y 1.2 AttractSoftZone 0.75 AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45 AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5 AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0 AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85 AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0 AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1 AttractMoveInputCap 0.0 AttractYawStrength 1.0 AttractPitchStrength 0.34 MaxToTargetAngle 45.0 MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0 ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0 SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0 SnapZoomTime 0.2 SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0 SnapZoomPostTime 0.0 SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999 SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0 SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0 SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2 SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0 SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5 SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid* CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0 DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0 Prepare your laughbox Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x" the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

Up and down. Bounce all around

Posts: 3,100

Date of registration
: Apr 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 12:19pm

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

Legion gave you a comparison to one of the BMs.

The Lewis has twice the mag and twice the Hrec.
The BM has a sweet scope. The Huot doesn't. Optical performance has a big impact on ranged engagements.
The only thing an optic adds for a weapon is a slightly different ADS sensitivity/speed, varying degrees of magnification and perhaps some scope sway. It doesn't affect statistical gun performance, including ranged play. Use optics at your leisure.
Yeah, no reason to use scopes at all, they serve no gameplay function other than aethetics.

Also, I distinctly remember this forum taking a shit on people using RDS or iron sights on long range guns in BF4, instead of 3.4x or 4x sights.

But hey, I guess actually seeing your targets doesn't matter anymore.

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

Quoted from "Watcher-45"

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Quoted from "LeGarcon"

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

Posts: 126

Date of registration
: Nov 29th 2016

Platform: PS4

Location: Florida

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 12:51pm

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

Legion gave you a comparison to one of the BMs.

The Lewis has twice the mag and twice the Hrec.
The BM has a sweet scope. The Huot doesn't. Optical performance has a big impact on ranged engagements.

This is why I do not see how the Huot is meant to be a long range LMG.

It does not have the optics to facilitate such engagements.

This is the same case as the M1903 Infantry.

The BM Telescopic is pretty much the obvious "long range" LMG. The Huot is not.
Well I guess we don't have much of an argument, then.

Zero is the one stating the Huot was the best long range LMG. When you chimed in I assumed you were agreeing.

I guess if you don't have much use for a bipod, and just want the absolute highest accuracy while standing, then I could see picking the Huot.

My thing is... if I can just drop down and turn any LMG into a laser beam at 50-70m, why not Mg15? I know, sometimes that's not possible.

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 2:15pm

The lack of a sight may hinder its long range potential, but the stats themselves prove it is the best long range MG and I stand by that.

Here's the relevant information of the MG Bipod that I found in the files:

Source (Low Weight)

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StandZoomModifier::GunSwayStanceZoomModifierData
DispersionMod::GunSwayDispersionModData
MinAngleModifier 1.0
MaxAngleModifier 0.5
IncreasePerShotModifier 0.29411766
DecreasePerSecondModifier 0.88235295
RecoilMagnitudeMod 0.2
RecoilAngleMod 0.25
RecoilAngleOffset 0.0
FirstShotRecoilMod 1.0
StandNoZoomModifier::GunSwayStanceZoomModifierData
DispersionMod::GunSwayDispersionModData
MinAngleModifier 0.333
MaxAngleModifier 0.333
IncreasePerShotModifier 0.1667
DecreasePerSecondModifier 2.0

The same stats are applicable to crouch and prone as well.

What we have from the above are the following attributes:

• ADS/ Hip Recoil Up: 0.2
• ADS/ Hip Recoil Left/ Right: 0.25

(I think min./ max. spread is interchaged because of negative spread increase. I think.)

Keep in mind these are just modifiers, not universal values. I don't know how these are applied to the existing values for each corresponding Low Weight MG. Someone more qualified than I can explain that one.

Source (Suppressive or Telescopic)

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StandZoomModifier::GunSwayStanceZoomModifierData
DispersionMod::GunSwayDispersionModData
MinAngleModifier 1.0
MaxAngleModifier 0.5
IncreasePerShotModifier 0.24752475
DecreasePerSecondModifier 0.7425743
(Everything else is the same)

Source (Suppressive or Telescopic)

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StandZoomModifier::GunSwayStanceZoomModifierData
DispersionMod::GunSwayDispersionModData
MinAngleModifier 1.0
MaxAngleModifier 0.5
IncreasePerShotModifier 0.25862068
DecreasePerSecondModifier 0.7758621
(Everything else is the same)

Compare that to BF4's LMG Bipod and you can see the just how different the Bipod is now.

@iota-09

I just noticed this thread of yours. Instead of reposting there, I'll just summon you. Maybe this helps, but then again I don't know how these values apply to the MGs with Bipods overall.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

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AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
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AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
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AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 1.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.34
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SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
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x 2.0
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PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
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AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
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AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
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AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
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AttractPitchStrength 0.0
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SnapZoomTime 0.2
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SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
MaxAcceleration::Vec2
x 2.0
y 2.0
YawSpeedStrength 1.0
PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
x 1.0
y 1.2
AttractSoftZone 0.75
AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 1.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.34
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2\$ tho

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Feb 8th 2017, 3:29pm) with the following reason: More file digging.

Can't get a title

Posts: 1,531

Date of registration
: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

Reputation modifier: 13

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 2:43pm

Quoted from "Oak_Beard"

My thing is... if I can just drop down and turn any LMG into a laser beam at 50-70m, why not Mg15? I know, sometimes that's not possible.

This is a silly argument, because you're making the engagement unfair.

I could just as easily say that the Huot is better than the BAR in CQB because it has the ability to land multiple headshots out to ~35 m, whereas the BAR can't. Or that I can win every 1v1 under 10 m because I have the Bulldog equipped.

Also, the Huot does have a range cap due to spread, at about 100 m, and the BM will start to have a lower TTK. Of course, the lack of optics might push that range a little closer, but that is ultimately up to the player using it.
something something Model 8 bestgun

Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:

Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Quoted from "Veritable"

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.