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NoctyrneSAGA

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41

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 4:06am

The number of players who can use it effectively in-practice are few, because they're not skilled enough yet to know how to use them properly. Apparently, people do not put enough faith into factual statistics to understand why Battlefield One's gun balance is so neat.


What I think is happening is that the Huot is so accurate that players consistently wind up firing off target with it.

No way to prove it of course.
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42

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 4:22am

The number of players who can use it effectively in-practice are few, because they're not skilled enough yet to know how to use them properly. Apparently, people do not put enough faith into factual statistics to understand why Battlefield One's gun balance is so neat.


What I think is happening is that the Huot is so accurate that players consistently wind up firing off target with it.

No way to prove it of course.
I'm pretty sure that is exactly what is happening.

Based off my own personal experience (and without regards to any actual statistical evidence or analysis), new/mediocre players tend to aim somewhere at their target, fire, and either have difficulty controlling the recoil, track targets late/early, or snap their mice/sticks too fast. I should point out that this generalization is something I've applied to all new players of *almost any FPS game*, for the matter.

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43

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 4:27am

I may take the defences of the Huot more seriously if it was actually being compared to the Lewis and BM, rather than the obviously not at all comparable BAR and MG15, both of which are quite irrelevant to this discussion.

"It's much more accurate than the two spammy, inaccurate MGs" isn't really a vote of confidence.
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NoctyrneSAGA

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44

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 4:41am

Legion gave you a comparison to one of the BMs.

The Lewis has twice the mag and twice the Hrec.
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45

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 6:09am

There seems to be a lack of understanding about the properties of horizontal recoil. It is random; it cannot be compensated for, only the median drift can be countered to some extent. Picture a number line whose integers start at - 0.08 and end at 0.08; the well-documented horizontal recoil pattern of the Huot. After the first shot a random value is chosen between these points; the most being 0.08 in either direction of the zero. 0.08 units is *almost* non existent, hence the possible 95% accuracy rating at 50m which can only improve as you get closer.

The Benet Mercie is respectable and could also be categorized as a 'skill cannon' as the second most accurate MG. Again less shots are required because more shots land on target. The actual, effective DPS of slower firing, more accurate guns surpasses the actual, effective DPS of faster firing, less accurate guns where recoil and spread begin to hurt performance, namely medium and long range. Obviously, this excludes close range where the actual, effective DPS of faster firing, inaccurate guns surpasses that of the slower firing, accurate guns.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Zer0Cod3x

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46

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 7:53am

@BleedingUranium

Did I not say this?

Huot: has the fastest TTK out of all the LMGs at range.

M1909: has the best sustained damage out of all the LMGs at range (over its mag size, that is).

Lewis: 50 accurate rounds.

BAR, Madsen, MG15: don't use them at range.

I don't say this because it sounds nice.


If you count from the first bullet out of a burst, past 50 m, the Huot has the fastest TTK out of all the LMGs. Not kind of fast, not decently fast, THE fastest.

This is due to a combination of low HREC and FSSM.


The BM does start beating the Huot past about the 14th bullet IIRC, but this is more bullets than the Huot requires to kill at range. So, for pure 1v1 at longer ranges, the Huot is the best LMG in the game.

The Lewis has a large mag size, but has worse damage output than both the BM and the Huot.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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47

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 8:08am

The question is: is the Huot a viable choice ?

controlling the distances of your engagements is the most difficult task in all battlefields. Advocating the Huot but attributing it to keep distance to the enemy is the death sentence for the viability of this weapon. If there isnt a way to make the gun work in unpredictable (surprise CQB) events, then its never considered a viable weapon by the community.

Firefights lost by a weapons lack of capability in unpredictable events is simply a frustrating experience for any player. No matter how much symthic core members advocate the weapon.

The tap fire meta of former battlefields extended the range of weapons which can win unpredictable events. Now BF1 could show some creativity and find a way to make medium range weapons viable in unpredictable events.
still playin' Motorstorm

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48

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 8:09am

Did I not say this?


Derp, my bad. I'm sorry, I must have missed or forgotten that under everything else being said.
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NoctyrneSAGA

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49

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 8:15am

@ARE5R06

BF1 isn't BF4. The tapfire meta is something that BF1 has worked extensively to erase because it violates the paradigm that is in place.

Weapons are meant to excel within a specific set of ranges and be vulnerable outside of it.

Whether it is tap-fire making CQB weapons viable at mid-long or good hipfire for medium range weapons, violating this paradigm is not a good idea.
Data Browser

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50

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 9:12am

Legion gave you a comparison to one of the BMs.

The Lewis has twice the mag and twice the Hrec.
The BM has a sweet scope. The Huot doesn't. Optical performance has a big impact on ranged engagements.