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21

Tuesday, February 7th 2017, 10:05pm

It also doesn't have good muzzle velocity, 6hk min damage, or optics... you know, things you might want on a gun that's supposed to be the "best long range LMG".

Zer0Cod3x

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22

Tuesday, February 7th 2017, 10:32pm

Don't use bar at range you say?

Why I get rekted by them from 60 meters away.

I'm fairly sure you don't.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


  • "sgtCrookyGrin" started this thread

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23

Tuesday, February 7th 2017, 10:33pm

It also doesn't have good muzzle velocity, 6hk min damage, or optics... you know, things you might want on a gun that's supposed to be the "best long range LMG".


I was under the impression that 740ms is not the best in the LMG category but still surprisingly competent at ranges...

NoctyrneSAGA

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24

Tuesday, February 7th 2017, 10:45pm

It also doesn't have good muzzle velocity, 6hk min damage, or optics... you know, things you might want on a gun that's supposed to be the "best long range LMG".


Pretty sure I've already shown the math that weapons like the BAR will not land the requisite 6 hits before the Huot/Lewis land their 7 hits.
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Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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25

Tuesday, February 7th 2017, 11:42pm

Stick by your faith in mathmatics, it will serve you well in an alternate universe known as Battlemath 1.

Lol @ comparing it to the BAR.

You do realize players move, right? How does that fit into your math sim?


I'd much rather try to hit a moving target with [email protected] (B/M Tele) vs [email protected]

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Oak_Beard" (Feb 7th 2017, 11:56pm)


C0llis

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26

Tuesday, February 7th 2017, 11:50pm

It also doesn't have good muzzle velocity, 6hk min damage, or optics... you know, things you might want on a gun that's supposed to be the "best long range LMG".
Pretty sure I've already shown the math that weapons like the BAR will not land the requisite 6 hits before the Huot/Lewis land their 7 hits.
There are other LMGs than the BAR, many of which I'd rather use at range than the Huot. Like the Benet Mercie Optical or Telescopic, or the Lewis Gun Optical.

All of these guns have better uptime and base spread than the Huot. Their Hrec is also good enough for ranged use (especially on BM Optical), not to mention that the Huot's base spread is high enough to prevent if from capitalizing completely on its good Hrec. It's obvious that the Huot isn't supposed to be good at range.

The intention is probably for it to be a very mobile and reactive mid-range gun, due to the very low SFSM and that it comes with the Low Weight package. The problem is that the mag size and reload time are bad enough to to get in the way of this playstyle. The Model 8 .35 can play around its low uptime due to the extremely low exposure time and how quickly it kills, but the Huot has neither of these luxuries.

The Huot needs to be better at it's job. Currently it's just meh, but trimming down the reload should help a lot there. Why does the player have to pause for so long after removing the old magazine?

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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27

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 12:08am

Stick by your faith in mathmatics, it will serve you well in an alternate universe known as Battlemath 1.

Lol @ comparing it to the BAR.

You do realize players move, right? How does that fit into your math sim?


I'd much rather try to hit a moving target with [email protected] (B/M Tele) vs [email protected]


If you are not getting close to the statistical limitations of the weapon, that is your own problem.

If you don't like math, why are you on this website?




@C0llis

The Huot has 0.18 base spread as a LW variant. For other weapons to reach or exceed that, they have to use Optical or Telescopic packages that forfeit fast SDEC.

The relevance of SDEC comes into play when hRec cannot accumulate which lends the Huot to good tapfire.

Its tapfire RPM: 359.

Coincidence? No. This seems to have been deliberately planned.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

This post by "Oak_Beard" (Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 12:38am) has been deleted by user "Legion" (Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 2:37am) with the following reason: Rule 3

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29

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 1:14am

You just dodged that question as well as enemies dodge rounds from the Huot.

I'm on this forum because I enjoy intellegent discussion on my favorite game. The only one here that seems incapable of that is you (discussion, not intelligence).



I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the guns "target audience", with a lowly KD of 1.32. Does that preclude me from discussing it?

Can anyone link me to stats that show someone outperforming the other LMGs with the Huot, since it's such a "skill cannon"?


So somehow it is impossible to dodge shots from a BAR?

Considering those muzzle velocities, the difference in displacement afforded for the target between 740m/s and 820m/s is negligible. We are talking about a difference of 0.23m vs 0.21m walking for a target at 50m. The difference is proportional when sprinting but missing because of two centimeters is not a compelling argument in favor of 840m/s.

Did you ever consider how the hRec makes something like the BAR more prone to missing anyways? That is why I brought up the previous math in the first place. It's already been shown that a BAR or Madsen will miss enough that a Huot will kill faster. This is of course the long-term analysis resulting from thousands of runs.



What does your K/D have to do with anything? It doesn't.

All I said was that if you're not able to squeeze out the performance of the gun that is your own problem.

Introducing players introduces human error. There is a reason why this website prefers the weapon's stats and ignores players.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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30

Wednesday, February 8th 2017, 1:23am

The BAR, walking targets (lol), and 50m for "long range". Your "argument" is cherry picked to the extreme.

50m is MG15 territory, why even mention it?



How about this. At what range does it make sense to stop trying to stand and kill with the Huot, and instead use the bipod?