Symthic Forum was shut down on January 11th, 2019. You're viewing an archive of this page from 2019-01-09 at 00:56. Thank you all for your support! Please get in touch via the Curse help desk if you need any support using this archive.

Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Posts: 2,015

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

  • Send private message

101

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 4:25am

Who the hell knows what the different tank gun variants are supposed to do? It doesn't say anywhere that the TH landship has 57mm AT and not 57mm HE.

This has been stated before. The identification of 'Tank Hunter' should be a clear indication that the weapons are designed for anti tank purposes, hence 57mm AT (ant-tank) and not HE (high explosive).
Why? TH could merely be an identification that it carries an AT rifle. The breakthrough A7V is supposed to be a specialized vehicle killer, but happens to carry a pair of the most potent infantry farming guns in the game. The Howitzer, also a specialized vehicle killer gets a high-uptime infantry farmer as well.

The TH is actually anomalous in that it trades everything for vehicle killing, it is the only land vehicle in the game that can't farm infantry. Needs to say that on the box: you will die to rocket guns.

The general rule for battlefield is that any mistakes made in the way class weapons are presented gets amplified several fold for vehicles.

Posts: 2,015

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

  • Send private message

102

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 4:43am

It doesn't say anywhere that the TH landship has 57mm AT and not 57mm HE.


All the tank and plane weapons are listed in the customize screen, on that info panel on the right. :|

The Luger 1906 is actually a Marksman without a scope. But I'd rather see this silly not-actually-itself variant setup be done away with and actually have all three for the 10s, then everyone would be happy.
That screen also says HE or CASE, or it says AT - but those words don't really mean anything without descriptive context. For eg in BF4 the "AP" shell was initially the best anti-infantry shell. I thought AT = AP as a carry over and that HE was some sort of HEAT knockoff for better anti armor use.

The breakthough, on paper looks like it would make more sense as a specialized infantry farmer with three infantry farming weapons.

The howitzer - well you never know what that thing does until you actually try it. A giant HE shell that doesn't damage infantry well...yeah that makes sense? It also says, wait for it, 75mm HE. So remind me again, is HE supposed to kill infantry, or kill tanks? The 75mm HE is actually WORSE against infantry over time than the 57mm AT because of it's mag, reload, and terrible ballistics.

Oh and the final cherry? The arty truck big gun said "anti-tank cannon" but it's actually an anti everything derp gun.

So what is what exactly? Is HE anti-infantry or is it anti-tank? Is anti-tank AP or is it "anti-tank"?

Posts: 3,695

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

  • Send private message

103

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 4:47am

Well... yeah. You're definitely right about that; despite being there, it's incredibly uninformative.
Who Enjoys, Wins

  • "sgtCrookyGrin" started this thread

Posts: 62

Date of registration
: Dec 17th 2015

Platform: PC

Location: Marine Barracks, Washington D.C.

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

104

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 4:49am

If DICE breaks this rule, there's no stopping the community for begging and pleading to break it again with other selections. It's best to leave it as it is in this context.

You're not wrong that this could happen, but I think your wrong on the idea that it would happen again. If DICE has figured this stuff out with intuition and believe the Huot should only use irons then I'm inclined to understand, I can see it in the game technical design too but in practical sense, it's still awkward.

A week ago I remember seeing a video by a BF1 youtube (can't find the channel, maybe he'll pop up later) that was testing underused weapons in the game and used the Lewis Optical, he literally said he was inclined to believe it was for ranged use but thought otherwise because the visual recoil was too hefty. If that's from someone who knew what Symthic was then I'm assuming this is also on DICE's part for lack of information flow.

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

105

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 4:53am

Visual recoil is a different entity all on its own. It's a factor that can mislead, but does nothing from a technical standpoint.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

(1,327)

Posts: 1,531

Date of registration
: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

106

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 6:51am

I think we can all agree that statistically, the Huot is the best 1v1 LMG for range.

However, as many people have pointed out, this isn't very well communicated to players.


Most uninformed players seem to value high damage and RoF far more than low spread and recoil, despite the fact that damage, RoF, spread and recoil are all intrinsically related and combine to form your weapon's overall damage output. This can especially be seen in the high usage of the MG15 and the lower usages of the Lewis and Huot.

DICE have chosen to give the Huot very low spread and recoil, instead of a higher damage at range. Most uninformed players look at the Huot and think, "Wow, this weapon is terrible at range, because it has less min damage," when, contrary to popular belief, it actually is the best LMG at range.

Combine this with a lack of any optic and players believe that the Huot is terrible.


So, statistically, the Huot is the best LMG at range, however, the way DICE has implemented this is very unintuitive to most players.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


Posts: 14

Date of registration
: Nov 28th 2016

Platform: PS4

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

  • Send private message

107

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 7:44pm

The number of players who can use it effectively in-practice are few, because they're not skilled enough yet to know how to use them properly. Apparently, people do not put enough faith into factual statistics to understand why Battlefield One's gun balance is so neat.


What I think is happening is that the Huot is so accurate that players consistently wind up firing off target with it.

No way to prove it of course.
This is exactly my problem with the huot. I am pretty good with it, but I frequently find myself putting a laser beam just slightly off target

Posts: 7,809

Date of registration
: Feb 25th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: italy

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

108

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 9:16pm

The number of players who can use it effectively in-practice are few, because they're not skilled enough yet to know how to use them properly. Apparently, people do not put enough faith into factual statistics to understand why Battlefield One's gun balance is so neat.


What I think is happening is that the Huot is so accurate that players consistently wind up firing off target with it.

No way to prove it of course.
This is exactly my problem with the huot. I am pretty good with it, but I frequently find myself putting a laser beam just slightly off target

i tried for the first time today(or was it yesterday?) and this is exactly what happened, most times i couldn't get a kill wasn't because of the gun or of my accurracy, but because i didn't even know where to aim. do i aim high? do i aim low? straight on target? how much do i need to compenesate for recoil? i know it's low horizontally, but vertical is so weird...
andso on.

most times i'd end up giving a flaming haircut to prone enemies.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif




Posts: 3,695

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

  • Send private message

109

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 9:46pm

Yeah, it's a similar story for me. Although higher accuracy is better in a strictly technical sense, in practice there can be such a thing as too accurate. Having to be pixel-accurate with a full auto rifle, an MG no less, is both counter-intuitive and not really what I use the weapon type for. It's a machine gun, after all.

That doesn't make the Huot a bad gun, but it does make it a gun that fills an extremely niche role that very few players actually want.
Who Enjoys, Wins

Posts: 7,809

Date of registration
: Feb 25th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: italy

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

110

Thursday, February 9th 2017, 9:55pm

i think i'll just stick to the madsen low weight and mg15 suppressive at this point.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif