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: Aug 24th 2016

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161

Friday, February 17th 2017, 10:50pm






The MP18exp has a great theoretical rate of fire (ok it's burst not auto) but is IME much more demanding than the 1907.
.


Way more! Do you find that if you try to chain the bursts up shots just go all over the place? I think it's due to repeated addition of FSM plus visual recoil of optical sights.
When I first unlocked it I was in love... 3 burst with delayed FSM, reduced lateral recoil and a red dot but...maybe I should try it again and see if I can make it work

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162

Friday, February 17th 2017, 11:04pm






The MP18exp has a great theoretical rate of fire (ok it's burst not auto) but is IME much more demanding than the 1907.
.


Way more! Do you find that if you try to chain the bursts up shots just go all over the place? I think it's due to repeated addition of FSM plus visual recoil of optical sights.
When I first unlocked it I was in love... 3 burst with delayed FSM, reduced lateral recoil and a red dot but...maybe I should try it again and see if I can make it work
If you don't score basically 100% with your bursts until you kill the target, the spread+recoil makes the weapon unmanageable and you can't kill shit. So yes.

Zero said you need nearly 100% accuracy to turn the MP18Exp into a killing monster and I think he's not far off. Certainly much more than the 60% per engagement with the Model 8.

Which makes it the most skill cannony of skill cannons (well maybe tied with the slug since you can't miss up close or you die to most things), but with little to show for it. Unlike the post-buff slug.

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163

Friday, February 17th 2017, 11:29pm

You also have to be stationary to use the MP18 Ex, unlike the Optical.

Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

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164

Saturday, February 18th 2017, 12:12am

If you don't score basically 100% with your bursts until you kill the target, the spread+recoil makes the weapon unmanageable and you can't kill shit. So yes.

Zero said you need nearly 100% accuracy to turn the MP18Exp into a killing monster and I think he's not far off. Certainly much more than the 60% per engagement with the Model 8.

Which makes it the most skill cannony of skill cannons (well maybe tied with the slug since you can't miss up close or you die to most things), but with little to show for it. Unlike the post-buff slug.

Exactly my thoughts.

The MP18 Experimental has the potential to be better than the Optical at every range. However, if you don't have an absurdly high accuracy (almost 100%) or can consistently hit headshots then you're probably better off using the Optical or M10 Slug. You also have to be stationary when using it.

Not only that, but the amount of killing potential that you do gain isn't all that impressive. Sure, the Experimental is by far the best SMG for medium ranges, but it's still terrible at these ranges compared to LMGs and SLRs.


With regards to other skill cannons, I'd like the Support to get some sort of 5-round SLR/M10 Slug/MP18 Experimental-esque skill cannon. Right now, I do feel the LMGs are lacking somewhat in their depth, and are not much more than a point and click weapon.

As for how to do this, I have no idea.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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165

Saturday, February 18th 2017, 11:34am

I think you both missed what was actually being asked: The Rem 8 is intentionally designed to be an OP, do-everything weapon, with its small mag as the only downside. The question is, why don't the other classes have their own version of the Rem 8, in a thematic sense? A basically OP gun balanced by capacity/reload.


Yes and No. The formulation of the question is correct, but the OP gun doesnt need to be balanced by capacity/reload. The Model 8 .35 uses capacity as a balancing factor, but for other classes weapons there can be entirely different balancing attributes.

i dont know, maybe an LMG with extreme low ROF but its headshot multiplier changes over distance and bullet fired, being insanely high in CQB to abuse the accuracy of the first shot. This could reward the "skillful" aiming players win CQB fights. A One-Hit-Headshot-Kill must be prevented though.

You guys dont need to crush my idea, I know it has flawed due to *Automatic weapons get a headshot really easy, *Aiming isnt the skill of BF but positioning is ... and so on. However, you must admit that there is a high percentage of players being satisfied if their aiming is being rewarded.
still playin' Motorstorm

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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166

Saturday, February 18th 2017, 10:40pm






The MP18exp has a great theoretical rate of fire (ok it's burst not auto) but is IME much more demanding than the 1907.
.


Way more! Do you find that if you try to chain the bursts up shots just go all over the place? I think it's due to repeated addition of FSM plus visual recoil of optical sights.
When I first unlocked it I was in love... 3 burst with delayed FSM, reduced lateral recoil and a red dot but...maybe I should try it again and see if I can make it work
If you don't score basically 100% with your bursts until you kill the target, the spread+recoil makes the weapon unmanageable and you can't kill shit. So yes.

Zero said you need nearly 100% accuracy to turn the MP18Exp into a killing monster and I think he's not far off. Certainly much more than the 60% per engagement with the Model 8.

Which makes it the most skill cannony of skill cannons (well maybe tied with the slug since you can't miss up close or you die to most things), but with little to show for it. Unlike the post-buff slug.


Yeah this is how it is, although I daresay the slug is just like a CQ oriented BA, and I do not think it needs equally as much aim/skill as the remington and the MP18exp. The whole visual thing and the TSM does not really go well together to reliably hit. This is also the gun where you would have to think all the time about the range you are fighting in, whereas with the other two you just put the enemy down without thinking. THe MP18exp is rightfully underused, and I can not see it becoming any better without changing the mechanics totally for this weapon.

On topic of OP-weapons, well I think the Assault has one already and that is the Hellriegel, which combines a huge magazine with a really good ROF and decent handling, which makes it more usable in more situations. For LMGs maybe it is the Huot with a low magazine, but with high potential accuracy.

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167

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 3:40am

I've gotten a few service stars with the Experimental and my two cents are that One, it's too mechanically complex compared to other weapons for little actual advantage. If you can get a kill with it, you can probably also get a kill with any other SMG by aiming low and holding down the trigger.

Second is that it's actually pretty good at hipfire as the FSM being on the last shot means that if you briefly pause after the first burst means you get six very accurate shots. I'm struggling to switch over to the Optical after discovering this.