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  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Friday, January 20th 2017, 2:18pm

I'm not feeling it and neet to vent.

So I'd stopped playing BF1 a few weeks after release, with about 65 hours played. Not a problem, I was (rightly) sure that I'd return later, just wanted to play other games at the time.

I did so last week. I didn't do much worse than before, didn't do any better either.
Unfortunately I (re)discovered three things that greatly impeded my enjoyment:

- Fao Fortress. I absolutely detest this map. I don't think it plays out well as not only are there a lot of long sightlines, they mostly also come several at a time, and I can't seem to get enjoyment from taking sniper fire from three directions at once while trying to do anything at B or C. I might enjoy it more if it weren't for the second problem.

- only 64 player conquest. There is literally no 32 or 48 player conquest server in Europe, or at least I couldn't find one. I've preferred 48 to 64 since BF3, as I think it provides a less "chaotic" experience due to less crowded maps (for Metro and Locker 48 is still too much, though). I don't care how "uber awesome epic large scale battle" 64p is, I simply don't enjoy it enough.

- elite classes. It was a problem I also had with Battlefront, but there it was a bit more bearable due to the setting being high fantasy anyway. I still strongly dislike the system in either game, but it's what made me actually uninstall BF1 this time. I hated how just by picking up the Villar Perrosa sentry in a game of TDM (being tired of 64p and also wanting to do a TDM medal) allowed me to get a 18 kill streak that would have been quite a bit longer if the game hadn't ended then. Problem is not that I managed to go on such a streak, that happens from time to time regardless of powerups, but much more how cheap and ridiculous it felt. I didn't have to put real effort into it. As long as no one managed to sneak up on me from behind and melee me there was nothing they could really do against me. Even if they got the jump on me, I had several times their healthpool (plus active medics occasionally healing me) and the fastest non-onehit ttk (I think?) out of all weapons in the game combined with a ton of spare ammo. It was "free kills" like getting an attack chopper or AC130 out of a Modern Warfare 2 supply drop. And before you say "well if you don't like using the powerups then don't". Yeah, sure, because I'll gift my enemies with a game-breaking advantage. Behemoths are a similar issue, but they are at least contained to large gamemodes.

The kicker is not that the game has issues. BF3 and 4 had plenty of issues. The problem here is that they're not bugs or balancing or optimization, but game design decisions. Fao Fortress will likely remain a shit map for me throughout BF1's life cycle, just like Golmud remained my least favourite BF4 map that's actually being played (I generally prefer maps with fewer pieces of armor). The lack of 32/48 player servers is also something that I don't foresee being remedied. EA/DICE have made pretty clear that they aren't interested in large scale community hosted servers, and there are consequently very few in Europe. Custom servers could also have addressed my problem with elite classes (assuming those can be toggled off), but yeah, tough luck it seems.

Anyway I'm reinstalling BF4 right now, hope that my old fav servers are still populated.


/rant
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Friday, January 20th 2017, 3:03pm

Fao: Ignore the fortress as, being a fortress, is is only good at defending itself and two flags don't make it wrothwhile. Take the high ground at D. The rest works itself out from there. The snipers in the fortress are too far out to do any harm, you have a tactical advantage in taking C, and B, from there.
64p: Again this is a matter of strategy and map control to avoid the cancer I mean chaos.
Elite classes: When they eventually unfuck the rental servers these will go away.

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Friday, January 20th 2017, 4:26pm

Fao: Ignore the fortress as, being a fortress, is is only good at defending itself and two flags don't make it wrothwhile. Take the high ground at D. The rest works itself out from there. The snipers in the fortress are too far out to do any harm, you have a tactical advantage in taking C, and B, from there.
- for the first point, totally agree with this, most people are ineffective at shooting from that range and usually whoever holds the two points there loses the other points so w/e, it just means you need to modify your tactics when attacking it.


- second point i agree but only just started noticing it the other day that i rarely get less than 64players

- if i see an elite i put a bayonet in their throat and don't worry about them. they are only as OP as the other team is shit. i really think people work themselves up over these which don't change much about gameplay.

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Friday, January 20th 2017, 4:49pm

Villar Perosa in TDM/DOM - I agree, that's way too much. But, in general, - I'm okay with elite classes in CQ/Rush/Operations, they're very high dependant from teammates and very vulnerable against open spaces and flanking.
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.

C0llis

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Friday, January 20th 2017, 4:56pm

Fao: Ignore the fortress as, being a fortress, is is only good at defending itself and two flags don't make it wrothwhile. Take the high ground at D. The rest works itself out from there. The snipers in the fortress are too far out to do any harm, you have a tactical advantage in taking C, and B, from there.
That's only a tactic for how to win on a bad map. It doesn't make the map less shitty.


@OP

1: Map design in BF1 is overall better than in BF4 (mainly due to absence of skyscrapers, mountains and other tall enablers of bad and frustrating gameplay), but I agree that there still are a lot of problems in BF1, like the mentioned Fao, Suez (which is IMO worse than Metro and Lockers - it's just absolutely horrible for CQL), Sinai Desert E flag, bunkers where all entrances can be sealed off, etc.

2: I too miss 48p CQL. It provided a good balance of the lone player agency of lower playercounts and the chaos of higher playercounts. For me 64p is pretty gimmicky, in a "wow, look at all this chaos - isn't this game great?"-sense. 48p turned it down to more reasonable levels and resulted in less clustering on the highly contested flags and less asshattery.

3: I don't have any problems with elite classes. I don't view them as infantry, but more like "mini vehicles". Of course, then they should be balanced like vehicles, and on modes like TDM where there is only one Elite kit it unbalances the game in the same way as flag spawned vehicles do. Ideally, on TDM and such, both teams should get one Elite kit, and it should be spawned in like a vehicle.

I see Elites in TDM/Dom as more of a map/mode imbalance, rather than an actual problem with the Elite kits.

Also, if a team isn't able to deal with an enemy Elite in TDM/Dom then I'd say that they don't deserve to win. If the Elite is lone wolfing then the enemy team should be able to bayonet or overwhelm it, or if the Elite is sticking with the rest of his team and gets support from them then it's a display of teamwork from that team and the opposing team should be able to team up to kill 1 high value target if they actually do deserve to win. I do however see why some people don't want to have Elites in TDM/Dom, but personally I don't have a problem with them.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "C0llis" (Jan 20th 2017, 5:01pm)


LucidNonsenze

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Friday, January 20th 2017, 4:57pm

Villar Perosa in TDM/DOM - I agree, that's way too much. But, in general, - I'm okay with elite classes in CQ/Rush/Operations, they're very high dependant from teammates and very vulnerable against open spaces and flanking.
I completely agree, I flat out refuse to pick up sentry classes in DOM because it's so cheap. I have no problem with them in larger player count modes.

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Friday, January 20th 2017, 5:00pm

those are pretty much all the reasons why i play only operations(i try to avoid oil of empires unless i want to boost my W/L ratio)
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


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  • "Zormau" started this thread

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: Jun 23rd 2012

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Friday, January 20th 2017, 5:18pm


1: Map design in BF1 is overall better than in BF4 (mainly due to absence of skyscrapers, mountains and other tall enablers of bad and frustrating gameplay), but I agree that there still are a lot of problems in BF1, like the mentioned Fao, Suez (which is IMO worse than Metro and Lockers - it's just absolutely horrible for CQL), Sinai Desert E flag, bunkers where all entrances can be sealed off, etc.


I'm not gonna disagree on that, the reduced "verticality" is IMO a good change. I'd love to see how they pan out in 48p conquest large or maybe even 32p conquest small. You know, when there might actually be a sightline that's not being watched. (I'm exaggerating on purpose, you know?) Also a reason why I prefer the skyscraper in Shanghai being destroyed.


3: I don't have any problems with elite classes. I don't view them as infantry, but more like "mini vehicles". Of course, then they should be balanced like vehicles, and on modes like TDM where there is only one Elite kit it unbalances the game in the same way as flag spawned vehicles do. Ideally, on TDM and such, both teams should get one Elite kit, and it should be spawned in like a vehicle.

I see Elites in TDM/Dom as more of a map/mode imbalance, rather than an actual problem with the Elite kits.

Also, if a team isn't able to deal with an enemy Elite in TDM/Dom then I'd say that they don't deserve to win. If the Elite is lone wolfing then the enemy team should be able to bayonet or overwhelm it, or if the Elite is sticking with the rest of his team and gets support from them then it's a display of teamwork from that team and the opposing team should be able to team up to kill 1 high value target if they actually do deserve to win. I do however see why some people don't want to have Elites in TDM/Dom, but personally I don't have a problem with them.

While I agree that special classes in large gamemodes aren't nearly as terrible as they are in TDM, they're still a nuisance and IMO don't add to the experience. I'm also not saying that the enemy team deserve to win if they can't collectively take out a sentry, but it also doesn't feel like I deserved to win just because I picked up the VP sentry. I consider a "no one wins" situation gameplay-wise. I don't mind the 08/15 sentry so much, it kills bayonet chargers rather slowly, but the VP is beyond any semblance of tastefulness.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Friday, January 20th 2017, 6:23pm

Fao: Ignore the fortress as, being a fortress, is is only good at defending itself and two flags don't make it wrothwhile. Take the high ground at D. The rest works itself out from there. The snipers in the fortress are too far out to do any harm, you have a tactical advantage in taking C, and B, from there.
That's only a tactic for how to win on a bad map. It doesn't make the map less shitty.

I guess what I'm saying is that the map is only as shitty as your experience of it, and you can control that experience.
We're not talking about Siege of Shanghai with it's unavoidable rooftop warfare and guys parachuting on your head to stab you from the heavens... Now that, that was a shitty map (unless of course you were the best AH team). On Fao, you can avoid the things that would, potentially, make it shitty.

  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Friday, January 20th 2017, 6:37pm


I guess what I'm saying is that the map is only as shitty as your experience of it, and you can control that experience.
We're not talking about Siege of Shanghai with it's unavoidable rooftop warfare and guys parachuting on your head to stab you from the heavens... Now that, that was a shitty map (unless of course you were the best AH team). On Fao, you can avoid the things that would, potentially, make it shitty.

Shanghai 48p > Fao Fortress 64p allday errday.

Getting to D basically requires C (and most likely B) if your team comes from the west. B and C are in full view from both the fortress and D itself. While your team needs to perform a literal uphill struggle, they're being shot at not only by snipers from the fortress and D alike, but also being met with a stream of close-mid range classes liberally using the high ground and rocks as cover. And again, the problem is not that these sightlines exist, but how open they are. You're never exposing yourself to just one sniper spot. And if you want random death from the sky, there's still the behemoth for you.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?