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  • "Veritable" started this thread

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51

Friday, February 17th 2017, 9:55am

Thanks for the answer, I got into the auto loading 8 marks because of you and it has become my favorite medic gun. Any difference between the magnifications of zoom and is there a reason to use a specific magnification?

I always use the marksmen variant when I use the 1916, I will have to give the optical a shot especially as it showed better stats.

Super helpful guide, have you looked at the pistols like this btw?

For Auto-8 .35 Marksman, I'd say go for the lower end... 2.5x / 3x, because you don't really have the Velocity to be picking off headglitchers. For the M1916 Marksman, I ran 4x and I'd play REALLY far back, where your really-good accuracy and consistent damage shines, and your low RoF is actually no big deal. Yes, as JSLICE20 said, the M1916 actually has decent stats, and I think it is perfectly useable at mid-long.

More useful than the Mondragon Sniper, that is... at least you can stay mobile with it.

The reason why the Optical shows better scoring, is because the Marksman does not receive any tangible benefit to ADS - Moving. This variant does receive a fairly large bonus to ADS - Not Moving, but honestly at ranges where BF1 people kill each other, 0.12deg of Spread is not really necesssary. The Optical, on the other hand, receives ADS - Not Moving AND ADS - Moving buffs... and with the former good enough to still guarantee 100% chest hitrate even at 100m, the Marksman is overkill while the Optical is more useful more often.

For a ADS - Not Moving 5RB at 100m, I have the Marksman deal 70.71981 damage. Optical? 69.66127. That is essentially no difference. ADS - Moving 5RB at 60m? Marksman - 56.312445, Optical - 69.949425. That is significant.

As for Optical zoom level, again according to this post: 14th February 2017 Battlefield 1 Patch Notes - Symthic style 2x for that one.

Yes I had planned on doing sidearms next. Still trying to figure out how to simulate the gate-loading revolvers into Reload times....

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52

Friday, February 17th 2017, 8:19pm

I, too, am moving to the Factory. I find that:

-The Marksman is simply unusable from the hip at 360RPM whereas the Factory is fine
Can someone please educate me? The factory has better spread decrease from the hip and better recoil decrease. I though spread and recoil decrease only happened when you stopped firing or fired lower than max rof. If you are firing at 360rpm, do you still get the benefit?

  • "Veritable" started this thread

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53

Friday, February 17th 2017, 8:51pm

Can someone please educate me? The factory has better spread decrease from the hip and better recoil decrease. I though spread and recoil decrease only happened when you stopped firing or fired lower than max rof. If you are firing at 360rpm, do you still get the benefit?

You will be out of action for 2x longer when Hipfiring with the Marksman, vs. the Factory.

According to my worksheet, at 5m Hipfire Not Moving, 5RB, both Marksman and Factory expects to output 208.852686 damage. Makes sense, as they have the exact same Hipfire Spread, Spread Increase Per Shot, and H-Recoil. It takes them both 0.8333333333s to shoot those 5 rounds.

However, once you're done shooting, you have to go through Spread Decrease. For the Factory, that takes 0.1666666667s. Marksman, though, needs 0.3333333333s before you get back to starting Spread.

Adding them together, it takes 1s for the Factory to shoot 5RB in Hipfire then settle back down. Marksman? 1.1666666667s. Thus their Hipfire scores reflect that.

Now, since you just mag-dumped, and thus starting to Reload, I THINK Spread and Recoil Decrease still takes place during that time. To reload 5 rounds into your Auto-8 .35 takes 3.234s. That means your SDec should have been long-completed by the time your gun is finished reloading. This part, though, I'm not certain. We have guys here who do memory-reading in-game; it'd be nice to find that out.

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54

Friday, February 17th 2017, 8:57pm

Thank you Veritable. That makes sense, I am hoping Duck can clarify what he meant by the marksman's hipfire being unusable compared to the factory...it sounds like they are effectively the same at max ROF for 5 rounds. Perhaps he is referring to a scenario in which he is in cqb with more than one opponent, and he downs one with 3 rounds and then switches targets very quickly to the 2nd opponent, during which time the spread and recoil can reset more quickly than the marksman could.

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55

Friday, February 17th 2017, 9:38pm

I am hoping Duck can clarify what he meant by the marksman's hipfire being unusable compared to the factory...it sounds like they are effectively the same at max ROF for 5 rounds. Perhaps he is referring to a scenario in which he is in cqb with more than one opponent, and he downs one with 3 rounds and then switches targets very quickly to the 2nd opponent, during which time the spread and recoil can reset more quickly than the marksman could.

I tossed that question to this thread in Quick Q&A: Do You "Spread Decrease" While Reloading? Hopefully someone truly in the know will chime in there.

Here is another kinda "interesting" dichotomy on this tangent of Factory vs. Optical / Marksman Hipfire. See this Simple Comparison: Autoloading 8 .35 Marksman vs Selbstlader 1906 Factory | BF1 Weapon Comparison | Symthic (pretend for a moment that it's the pre-patch Luger 1906, as still an actual Factory)

You look at the superior Hipfire spreads of the Auto-8 Marksman, and you'd think that despite Marksman vs. Factory, the Remington is still better. It has higher Max Damage, and higher RoF to boot!

However, at extreme close-range (say 2.5m), I had them TIED in terms of Hipfire Shooting + Recovery scores. How?

Well, the Auto-8 shoots its 5RB in 0.8333333333s, as noted previously. The 1906, with its lower RoF, does the same in 1s.

Also noted previously, the Auto-8 Marksman recovers in 0.3333333333s. The 1906 Factory, though, recovers in 0.1666666667s.

Adding the Shooting + Recovery times together? Auto-8 Marksman: 1.1333333333s. 1906 Factory: 1.1333333333s.

Thus it is possible for a gun with worse Hipfire Spread AND worse RoF, to still match the performance of another gun more known for its closer-ranged performance, by virtue of its Spread Decrease.

-----

Unfortunately the Luger 1906 is now an "Optical," so its Hipfire scoring took a nosedive. To be honest, I personally thought the 1906 "Factory" was perfectly useable, though I admit that it was due to this exercise that I would learn its strengths and weaknesses. I hope it comes back one day.

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56

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 3:04pm

On 1907 SL vs Autoloading 8 Extended.

Couldn't you argue that more BTK on Extended doesn't matter since it fires 20% faster?

Also isn't the Extended better because of the higher Muzzle velocity?
It also has 43% less recoil to left and right and has the lowest vertical recoil.

Also the edges out the 1907 SL in empty reload, its very close in reload speed with bullets left. The 1907 SL is a minuscule 5% faster.

I would argue that the Model 8 Extended is the better than the 1907 SL.

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Sunday, February 19th 2017, 4:52pm

On 1907 SL vs Autoloading 8 Extended.

Couldn't you argue that more BTK on Extended doesn't matter since it fires 20% faster?

Also isn't the Extended better because of the higher Muzzle velocity?
It also has 43% less recoil to left and right and has the lowest vertical recoil.

Also the edges out the 1907 SL in empty reload, its very close in reload speed with bullets left. The 1907 SL is a minuscule 5% faster.

I would argue that the Model 8 Extended is the better than the 1907 SL.
I tried the 1907 SL, my first thought was why am I not just using Auto 8.25. Only real advantage I can see is in the 1907 Trenches hipfire, but even then I find the 60 rpm extra is more useful for hipfiring in cqc than the better spread. Outside of CQC just use Auto 8 .35.

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58

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 5:26pm

I've found the tighter spread of the Trench guns lets you get away with hipfiring at longer ranges than the .25.

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59

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 5:28pm

I've found the tighter spread of the Trench guns lets you get away with hipfiring at longer ranges than the .25.
But at those ranges, is it better to simply ADS and ensure you get at least chest shots? I'm not sure of the exact benefits of .25 ADS or 1907 Trench hip at say 20 metres.

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60

Sunday, February 19th 2017, 5:53pm

Well, at 15 meters you might as well hipfire, where the Trench variant will win against the .25

I think 1907 SL Factory and Cei-Rigotti Factory are better because you have to wait less in between shots. Allowing to shoot more often.