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61

Wednesday, January 11th 2017, 2:33am

What EvenBalance decides might be a false positive PBBans, GGC, and ACI may decide to enforce?


No, false positives are false positives. If it was declared a false positive it would be removed once discovered to be so. If an account is compromised and caught hacking...it gets banned. Else every hacker would turn around and claim oh my account was hacked.


PBB/GGC simply do what other have asked for. Gives hackers a one strike and your out.

Outside of metabans, none of these systems involve admins determining what is or isn't a crime. PBB, GGC, ACI are all systems that run determined on punkbuster. No admins involved. These aren't made up violations or anything. These are violations where punkbuster goes yes you were hacking, but we are only gonna give you a slap on the wrist. So PBB and GGC turn around and go no, that is dumb and give server owners the option to not allow accounts that have been caught by punkbuster for hacking and let off.
Metabans was what I was thinking of specifically. How prevalent was it in BF3 and BF4 though?

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Wednesday, January 11th 2017, 2:45am

Metabans was what I was thinking of specifically. How prevalent was it in BF3 and BF4 though?


BF3...prevalent enough. By BF4 more and more admins realized it wasn't being used the way it was intended to. At first it was used a little but quickly died out in BF4.

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  • "Ritobasu" started this thread

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63

Tuesday, January 31st 2017, 2:25pm

Recorded another golden moment here this evening

https://my.mixtape.moe/tauzcz.webm


It'll be almost 4 months since BF1 was released, and things like this still typically happen in late night sessions on NA. Bravo FairFight!

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Wednesday, February 1st 2017, 1:45am

'Sudden Influx' would be inaccurate. The BF1 cheater scourge has been there since release.

I get the feeling that to most American and European players, the issue is out of sight, out of mind. They do not care much about anti-cheat and feel that the tradeoff of less unjust bans for more cheaters running around is worth it, because they do not see a lot of them in the first place. Maybe the cheaters leak into American servers once in a while and annoy people like Ritobasu who play late at night. But overall, they're shelved into the category of 'non-issue'. Posts like Marble's and Noctyrne's seem to confirm this feeling.

Well, I can tell you from a perspective of an Asian player that we legitimate Asian players would very much prefer a stronger anti-cheat system, because the BF1 Asian servers are filled to the brim with cheaters. You can find at least one blatant cheater in every third round, sometimes every round if you're having a bad day. I'm not even talking about people who 'seem' weird, like being extremely accurate within the realms of possibility. I'm talking about people who will kill you in a blink of an eye with an MP18 from e to d flag on empire's edge (https://my.mixtape.moe/ertivs.webm), obliterate your heavy tank in 2 shots with their light flanker tank (https://my.mixtape.moe/czlzek.webm), run (https://my.mixtape.moe/qzxlkw.webm) around (https://my.mixtape.moe/cknjjo.webm) invisible and knife people, onebang you with a Gewehr 95 without a headshot (https://my.mixtape.moe/rcphvp.webm), or really, even any other weapon like the Selb marksman (https://my.mixtape.moe/eavobg.webm), MP18 (https://my.mixtape.moe/tivxjx.webm) or a dinky little pistol (https://my.mixtape.moe/zictzu.webm), and spawn the villar perosa in st quentin's scar mowing everyone down with an aimbot (https://my.mixtape.moe/szrazn.webm). I'd have at least triple the amount of clips if Shadowplay didn't mess up some of the shadow mode recordings and if I actually bothered to record every single blatant cheater I saw, including people who were damage hacking on planes killing bombers in one burst of machine gunfire (not rockets).

I am seriously not exaggerating when I say blatant cheaters are literally running everywhere in Asian servers, let alone the 'subtle cheaters'. And they have been doing so since release right up to yesterday when I changed servers 3 times and all 3 servers had at least 2 blatant cheaters on each side.

It's gotten to the point where we Asian players don't even know who's legit and who's not anymore. If we saw someone like Relaaa on an Asian servers, we'd be utterly convinced he was cheating. And can you blame us, with the kind of players we're used to playing against?

We're desperate for votekick and voteban to come over, as it's crystal clear to us that Fairfight is not doing its job, those admin tools are the only respite we might have against the huge amount of cheaters we play with every day.

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Wednesday, February 1st 2017, 2:49am

even in the alpha there were cheaters to be honest, like people oneshotting you with the mp18 from the top of the airship.
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bf4
on 13/05/2016
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Miffyli

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66

Wednesday, February 1st 2017, 11:10am

@pTowel

Wow man, I know Russians are seen as the "go-to cheaters" but didn't know Asian areas could have it this bad.

Thing with FairFight is that it _should_ ban such obvious and "ragey" hacks like insta-kills, no-recoil+no-spread+aimbot killing and other very prominent methods (this post on UnknownCheats could be going to right direction). However I don't know if FF bans in waves or does it just require bunch of samples (if it relies on statistical testing, then it does), which might make it seem anti-cheat is not banning cheaters.

Not to sound offensive, but maybe this is due to Asian players cheating so much? Not to say it is "Asia's fault" or anything though, anti-cheat should be able to fix this. IMHO anti-cheat should take a match or two of hacking to ban a player, not days or even weeks.

The lack of PB and other signature checking might allow scripter kiddies cheat easily. In BF4 if you downloaded public free hack which was more than few weeks old, it was 99% surely flagged in PB already and using it lead to a ban. Now it is a matter of just cheating discretely and not going all rage-aimbotty.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

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Wednesday, February 1st 2017, 12:05pm

@pTowel

Wow man, I know Russians are seen as the "go-to cheaters" but didn't know Asian areas could have it this bad.

Thing with FairFight is that it _should_ ban such obvious and "ragey" hacks like insta-kills, no-recoil+no-spread+aimbot killing and other very prominent methods (this post on UnknownCheats could be going to right direction). However I don't know if FF bans in waves or does it just require bunch of samples (if it relies on statistical testing, then it does), which might make it seem anti-cheat is not banning cheaters.

Not to sound offensive, but maybe this is due to Asian players cheating so much? Not to say it is "Asia's fault" or anything though, anti-cheat should be able to fix this. IMHO anti-cheat should take a match or two of hacking to ban a player, not days or even weeks.

The lack of PB and other signature checking might allow scripter kiddies cheat easily. In BF4 if you downloaded public free hack which was more than few weeks old, it was 99% surely flagged in PB already and using it lead to a ban. Now it is a matter of just cheating discretely and not going all rage-aimbotty.


It's because Chinese-made and Chinese-sold cheating software is easily and cheaply available, even on Taobao.com you can find 'full-featured' ones sold for as little as 8USD. No need to sugar-coat it, it is definitely due to Asian players cheating in large numbers, specifically those who know enough Chinese to find these things. Someone else explained it here: "Assist Programs" of Battlefield 1 (Also known as HACKS) - Album on Imgur

Damage hackers are obvious enough that no one can really dispute the case, but there are a ton of level 10 - 30 players who go on top of the scoreboard with something like 90% HSKR (we know because they get their headshot killcount featured at the end-of-round screen) and 60 - 10 K/D with something like the MG15 Suppressive. And even though we are convinced that they're cheating after facing them in a firefight, there will always be others who label our accusations as a product of Dunning-Kruger effect. Sometimes, even we doubt ourselves because we know good players can produce a similar result, although the sheer number of guys like these make it pretty obvious that at least some of them aren't legit.

It is this uncertainty that I talked about earlier - that there are so many blatant cheaters running around that you start to wonder how many subtle ones there are, and when you die to what seems like bullshit, you automatically start doubting the opponent. It just makes for a very unpleasant playing experience.

  • "Ritobasu" started this thread

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Wednesday, February 1st 2017, 12:31pm

Thing with FairFight is that it _should_ ban such obvious and "ragey" hacks like insta-kills, no-recoil+no-spread+aimbot killing and other very prominent methods (this post on UnknownCheats could be going to right direction). However I don't know if FF bans in waves or does it just require bunch of samples (if it relies on statistical testing, then it does), which might make it seem anti-cheat is not banning cheaters.
Why does FF need time to collect data and issue bans for practically impossible kills? At this point, I'm done making excuses for EA/DICE dropping the ball on this


I wish there was some way to aggressively push this issue to the developers to do something about this asap, but considering how many people also rarely experience hackers and couldn't care less, or don't know how to identify a hacker properly, I really doubt anything will be done in the immediate future. It's just sad that Asian players and NA West (and East even) have to put up with this garbage during China Time

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Wednesday, February 1st 2017, 12:57pm

@pTowel

How was it in BF4/BF3 btw? Did they have as many cheaters there? BF1 is still bit young and their FF is still being fine tuned, but BF4 should have mostly finished FF setup + PB running so they might actually have less cheaters.

And indeed it makes you wonder how many sneak hack. I am almost okey with very light hacking, e.g. radar hack (not wallhack), being-aimed-at-warning and such. It doesn't help to have bit quirky networking at times which create some of those "insta-killed" situations and whatnot ^^


Why does FF need time to collect data and issue bans for practically impossible kills? At this point, I'm done making excuses for EA/DICE dropping the ball on this


They speak of using statistics as one of the approaches. If you look at statistical testing methods (this seems to be good example table) they all include sample size as a variable, and especially so that higher N -> more reliable results (or vice versa: With too low N you can't confirm anything).

Now I don't know if they really use statistical testing, but some statistical inference. It has been said on UC that they also check how much damage was dealt, distance of kills, weapons used and whatnot. They might have some simple rule based bans (e.g. if damage > 200 -> ban), but at the same time people can fire multiple bullets at once and get away with it.

There are still a bunch of aspects FF could improve. Sadly it takes ages to make things happen in corporations. A simple implementation/feature could take bunch of meetings, presentations/improvements, documents and a ton of bureaucracy which hinder the development. I figure this is one of the reasons why you don't see many AAA games with anything breathtakingly new, they tend to stick with what has worked so far (improving graphics/animations, etc).
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

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Wednesday, February 1st 2017, 1:12pm

@Miffyli

BF3 was my first BF game and I can't recall a ballpark figure, although it was very small. BF4 had some, but you'd see maybe one a week or two weeks. I would definitely call it a rare occurance, rare enough that it didn't significantly impact enjoyment as we could always just go to another server. I almost always played on custom servers with votekick and/or active admins and one time I even learned to distinguish capital I from lowercase L, which some cheaters used to make a name that was hard to votekick.

The amount of cheaters in BF1 compared to BF4, at least in Asian servers, is like night and day. It's crazy how many of them there are. Looking at the TMD advertisement and your comment about the lack of signature-checking in BF1, I'm starting to understand exactly why though.