Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

  • "JSLICE20" started this thread

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

61

Wednesday, January 4th 2017, 5:41pm


Here's a sample of the timer data:
index.php?page=Attachment&attachmentID=935

This is my first video ever uploaded. Unfortunately, I did not set the sound to record with the video when I uploaded it as I forgot to enable that feature on my PS4 upload settings. If requested, I can re-upload the video with game sound enabled to make the viewing more enjoyable. Nevermind. My phone audio was off haha. XD

Nevertheless, it displays how a single Support player next to an Ammo Bag can deploy a continuous stream of gas for nearly 15 minutes before the Ammo Bag expires.

Note that in order to resupply, both grenades must be used.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Jan 4th 2017, 7:07pm)


Posts: 32

Date of registration
: Aug 11th 2014

Platform: PC

Location: France

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

62

Wednesday, January 4th 2017, 8:05pm

I think having a grenade to force mid~long range weapon user to either move from their spots or fight with their close range sidearm is a good and needed thing.

I don't really think anyone legitimately proposed that they aren't a good or needed thing. I certainly did not. But with the data evidence provided, a player constantly resupplying can theoretically engulf a, 10m area in gas, if he so chose, indefinitely. Yes, it is unlikely that such a player would engage in such a tactic but the ability is there, especially if said player is the Support class;

As it is now, one can throw a Gas Grenade out and it will last 22 seconds. Before the first vanishes, they can toss a second in the same area for an additional 22 seconds essentially covering that area in gas for 44 straight seconds with the capability to extend that duration with resupplies. That is already ridiculously long. Reducing the time to live to, say, 12 seconds per grenade would be ideal I believe.


I understand but I don't think this is really an issue to be honest. This is an average tactic on choke points, that's true, but it can and will be countered. Smoke a bit forward of that gas cloud, so you can rush through it with mask without getting slaughtered and then kill them at hip fire range or just unmask. I admit it seems strange to be able to spam them especially as a Support but again is that really a big issue ?

Nerfing them will bring more and more explosive nades to the party, do we really want that ?

  • "JSLICE20" started this thread

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

63

Wednesday, January 4th 2017, 8:44pm

Smoke a bit forward of that gas cloud, so you can rush through it with mask without getting slaughtered and then kill them at hip fire range or just unmask. I admit it seems strange to be able to spam them especially as a Support but again is that really a big issue ?

A sound tactic, certainly, but it means sacrificing that Grenade slot with an option that is entirely situational and passive, whereas a Fragmentation Grenade serves as a direct, high-damage, area of effect output and short area of denial tool. Multipurpose tools are more valuable than situational ones for my playstyle and preference.

It's been stated many at time that this is a very early stage in Battlefield 1's lifetime. Players are still figuring out the mechanics, the best assets provided to them or the ones most applicable to their liking, and even glaring issues that can be exploited. I don't think the player base is aware of the potential, incessant gas 'spam' that is inherent in the Grenade's duration and resupply statistics. Give it enough time, maybe some public service announcements on YouTube, Battlelog, or Reddit and it can very well become a problem. The goal is to prevent it before it comes to fruition.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Posts: 2,015

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

  • Send private message

64

Wednesday, January 4th 2017, 10:08pm

So how does the gas gren damage get applied, especially relative to when you get the debuffed triggered?

Source code

1
2
    DoTTickDuration 1.0
    DoTTickDamage 15


My understanding is that it gets applied in 15 HP chunks every second you have the debuff (ie you're in the cloud AOE). But what happens if you stay in the gas cloud for < 1s, can you interrupt the damage cycle if you gas mask between ticks, etc or do you always get a 15HP chunk taken off if you get the debuff?

Another thing I find very confusing is the avatar response: sometimes you'll be in a cloud and choking/gagging sounds are playing but no damage gets taken, othertimes you'll basically be running through nothing, or what you think is a spent granade and all of a sudden it's -15 HP.

My only deaths to gas are from the latter situation: pulling back from a firefight with a sliver of health either to insta-gib from a gas grenade without any real warning I'm in the AOE, or because it was mixed in with a friendly grenade and the "warning flashy" wasn't there or I didn't process it in the chaos.

It's not a major frustration.

My biggest issue is the meta impact: namely over-valueing the trench variants over all other variants for weapons. If you're leading assaults or dug in defending as opposed to playing the mid/back field you will run into a ton of gas and hipfire is already so exceptionally advantageous on the likes of the 1907, Automatico, BAR that it really makes these the go-to choices. If you have to fight masked, you're basically toast if you have to fight - which is precisely the point, but it's actually exceptionally powerful.

NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(10,156)

Posts: 7,231

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

65

Wednesday, January 4th 2017, 11:29pm

Another thing I find very confusing is the avatar response: sometimes you'll be in a cloud and choking/gagging sounds are playing but no damage gets taken,


Friendly gas nade.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Posts: 2,015

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

  • Send private message

66

Thursday, January 5th 2017, 12:08am

Another thing I find very confusing is the avatar response: sometimes you'll be in a cloud and choking/gagging sounds are playing but no damage gets taken,


Friendly gas nade.
Well that's not terribly helpful as a game mechanic.....no other friendly stuff causes player status changes.

Posts: 32

Date of registration
: Aug 11th 2014

Platform: PC

Location: France

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

67

Thursday, January 5th 2017, 12:56am


My biggest issue is the meta impact: namely over-valueing the trench variants over all other variants for weapons. If you're leading assaults or dug in defending as opposed to playing the mid/back field you will run into a ton of gas and hipfire is already so exceptionally advantageous on the likes of the 1907, Automatico, BAR that it really makes these the go-to choices. If you have to fight masked, you're basically toast if you have to fight - which is precisely the point, but it's actually exceptionally powerful.


Some sidearms are very powerful for close range engagements, especially the revolvers like the Auto, Bulldog and such. It's generally a good idea to equip those when you use a weapon that cannot be really used at close range and/or hip fire.

BF1: | BF1 Multi-Weapon Comparison | Symthic

I dont think the impact is that great !

Posts: 3,639

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

  • Send private message

68

Thursday, January 5th 2017, 1:05am

Well that's not terribly helpful as a game mechanic.....no other friendly stuff causes player status changes.


Not having gas affect friendlies at all would be immensely detrimental to the game. Gas the enemies, then just charge in with no debuffs or restrictions on your teammates; it would be like having Smoke only block the enemy's LoS, but not your teammates'.

If you (general "you", not you-you) think gas spam is bad now, oh man, gas with no friendly effects would be multiple times worse. That it affects friendlies is one of its few notable things preventing it actually being spammed literally everywhere at all times.
Who Enjoys, Wins

NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(10,156)

Posts: 7,231

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

69

Thursday, January 5th 2017, 1:22am

Well that's not terribly helpful as a game mechanic.....no other friendly stuff causes player status changes.


Not having gas affect friendlies at all would be immensely detrimental to the game. Gas the enemies, then just charge in with no debuffs or restrictions on your teammates; it would be like having Smoke only block the enemy's LoS, but not your teammates'.

If you (general "you", not you-you) think gas spam is bad now, oh man, gas with no friendly effects would be multiple times worse. That it affects friendlies is one of its few notable things preventing it actually being spammed literally everywhere at all times.


You are also assuming that players are aware that their gas nades affect their teammates as well.

Based on the fact that one person in this thread had to look up an XFactor video to figure that aspect out and how the game does not actually inform the player of this information, I'm fairly certain that the friendly Suppression is obscure enough that most players are in fact unaware of what they're doing to teammates.

This means that turning it on or off would have no effect on spam.



Also, Smoke's visual component only works on your teammates and enemies. AFAIK, spotting and aim assist are disabled only for enemies.

Furthermore, giving players an avenue to actively sabotage their teammates is not a good idea.

See Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, and Hardcore mode for good examples. In fact, you might as well look at any previous Battlefields for examples.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Jan 5th 2017, 1:28am)


Posts: 2,015

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

  • Send private message

70

Thursday, January 5th 2017, 1:25am

@Mahkah

For sure, but they don't dominate the way the various potent hipfire automatics do, the real strength of the gas is neutralizing ADS fire from the strong midrange weapons during an advance. The impact is actually huge it's just underplayd often because of spam instead of well placed tosses much of the time.

Combined with smoke its even better since you can basically bounce entire positions with trench weapons at point blank. But it requires the whole squad or group outfitted with a mix and the right weapons and grens: shotguns, automaticos, bars and the 1907 trench. You can turn any meatgrinder flag into a blind knife fight if a whole squad is dumping gas and smoke.