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21

Tuesday, January 3rd 2017, 5:05am

I've used gas grenades religiously since release, and while I agree with removing the damage through walls, any nerf to their normal effectiveness would be unjustified imo. They have plenty of drawbacks compared with other options. If you throw a normal grenade into a group of enemies, they all die. If you throw a gas grenade, they just lose some health and fighting ability. The gas is mostly just for area denial, finding hidden enemies, covering flanking routes and injuring enemies before engagements. For that you lose the abilities of other grenades to get kills/ damage tanks.

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22

Tuesday, January 3rd 2017, 5:59am

Maybe keep their effectiveness or buff them a little, but reduce the amount carried to just one or idk, make them class specific. Something needs to be done, these gas clouds are all over the place, sometimes it's all right, sometimes it's a joke, especially on 64p servers, where every special effects junkie seems to carry a couple in his pockets and since they don't live long anyway, they come back and throw a couple more. They do distort my game too much, I don't want to put on a mask, remove the mask all the time. I think they are more suited for a game like CS or rainbow six, where player counts are small and they can provide tactical advantage without the risk of becoming spammy.

Too much mustard smoke on this end. Not liking it.

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23

Tuesday, January 3rd 2017, 6:10am

A relevant tangent: Are Smoke Grenades in need of a buff? If Smoke Grenades aren't performing as well as they should, or more specifically, aren't "better" than Gas Grenades to a high enough degree, Gas would naturally be the better option.

Do they make large enough clouds? Do they last long enough? Should they cause Suppression? What if they gave points for every enemy within them, as if they were causing damage (but not literal damage)?
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  • "JSLICE20" started this thread

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24

Tuesday, January 3rd 2017, 6:24am

Unfortunately, just saying "I don't like them, they should only be in a different game," (paraphrasing) isn't productive for discussion. They are most definitely here to stay; DICE isn't going to remove them. Gas Grenades are a feature of the setting chosen and those who play the game will just have to adapt to their existence. That's truly the only response that is applicable here. It's very unlikely gas will be changed at all aside from the obvious bugs associated with it.

From those who replied to the topic, the general consensus is that they don't break gameplay, which I agree with completely. I'd like to see fine tuning of the User Interface, visual rendering effects, and collision with solid objects concerning gas but that's it.

@BleedingUranium

I certainly see more gas clouds than smoke, that's for sure. The smoke dispersion is wider (7m) and more dense than gas, but gas is pretty darn thick in and of itself. It basically acts as a visual barrier alongside an area of denial tool, serving the same purpose a smoke cloud does (barring spotting capabilities). An inferior cloud, but a versatile one.

Source code

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BlockSpottingEntityData 00000002
    BlockingRadius 7.0
    LifeTime 16.0
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
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    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
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    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
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        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
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    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
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        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
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    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
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    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
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No Auto Rotation Data

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
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    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
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    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
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    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
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    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Jan 3rd 2017, 6:38am)


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25

Tuesday, January 3rd 2017, 6:46am

An inferior cloud, but a versatile one.


That's what I was really trying to get at. Is Smoke actually good enough at its job that it's actually a better choice than gas? And I don't mean in any imaginable situation, but as a standard-use item that you leave in the class at (basically) all times.

It would be interesting if you could "cook" Smoke Grenades, or rather let them go off while still holding them, and run around with them active. Rather like the vehicle smokescreens, which are certainly useful. Also, Smoke lasting less time than Gas is definitely bizarre; 30 seconds on Smoke would definitely make it more useful. Longer duration plus active-while-holding would allow an infantry version of the vehicle smokescreen, albeit much more risky to the user.
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NoctyrneSAGA

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26

Tuesday, January 3rd 2017, 6:51am

16s of no spotting and no aim assist in an area isn't good enough?

If you throw it at the enemy, they cannot see who to shoot at nor can they use aim assist to find you.

On the other hand, your spotting seems to work fine. Even if it doesn't, it is trivial to concentrate fire into a smoke cloud.

It's much easier to shoot into the cloud than it is to shoot out of it.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

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27

Tuesday, January 3rd 2017, 7:21am

A relevant tangent: Are Smoke Grenades in need of a buff? If Smoke Grenades aren't performing as well as they should, or more specifically, aren't "better" than Gas Grenades to a high enough degree, Gas would naturally be the better option.

Do they make large enough clouds? Do they last long enough? Should they cause Suppression? What if they gave points for every enemy within them, as if they were causing damage (but not literal damage)?


This was included very deliberately.
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NoctyrneSAGA

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28

Tuesday, January 3rd 2017, 7:34am

And I'm saying that you are underestimating them.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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29

Tuesday, January 3rd 2017, 7:49am

I honestly don't have too much of an opinion either way, as I've never tried to make them complete. I simply use Gas in Support because it makes the most sense there, and Smoke in Scout because it makes the most sense there. I don't run military trials (as it were) to find the "best" thing to use, so I also try to avoid making statements on such things. I'm not an expert on this topic, which is why was looking for thoughtful and interesting discussions about the pros and cons of each. Different opinions and experiences and such (yours included).

So while it still seems to me Scout would be much better with Smoke than Gas (for a number of reasons), and Smoke can be extremely powerful, I'm having trouble considering it equally as effective and viable as Gas across a broad range of situations, maps, modes, and it's certainly less versatile.
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30

Tuesday, January 3rd 2017, 11:37am

My experience with gas grenades is borderline rage inducing and i wanted them to be tweaked a little since the beta.

- it's difficult to tell AoD limits
- very long TTL (i got kills when i was already dead and waiting in the deployment screen)
- gas cloud doesn't always render correctly
- it works through any cover
- friendly gas gives annoying visual effect and suppression

This all make gas grenades very easy to exploit and annoying af. I'd so happy if DICE disabled the gas debuffs on friendlies at least. Apart from obvious rendering bugs of course