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21

Thursday, January 5th 2017, 6:46am

so if then it all ended up being true, what are the different rof values between hipfire and ads for the various revolvers? and do other kind of weapons have a differnt value?


Only the Gasser and No.3 are fired in Single Action, so I'd assume they're the only two with this difference.
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VincentNZ

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22

Thursday, January 5th 2017, 11:24am

so this is indeed a thing? I only followed the thread with half an eye, and never thought this could really be the case...

Geez, I just hope this is a bow to Overwatch or something and not a real feature...

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23

Thursday, January 5th 2017, 7:26pm

Why not? This sort of nuance is how weapons can be further differentiated.
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24

Thursday, January 5th 2017, 8:59pm

@Miffyli

Are you considering adding this to the Weapon Data?
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Miffyli

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25

Thursday, January 5th 2017, 9:13pm

@Miffyli

Are you considering adding this to the Weapon Data?

I could add it yes, I just need to check how the system actually works so I don't do more ad-hoc patches that screw up other weapons or so.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

VincentNZ

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26

Friday, January 6th 2017, 12:44am

Why not? This sort of nuance is how weapons can be further differentiated.


Because it is a technique that destroys the gun? It is also terribly inaccurate, and was only used to show off, or in Wild West shows. You might just as well put in a feature where you can throw your weapon at the enemy to knock him out. The feature is a unauthentic gimmick, and we also do not need any more stuff to differentiate weapons. If anything we need less stats. Consistency is the key.

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27

Friday, January 6th 2017, 1:16am

Because it is a technique that destroys the gun? It is also terribly inaccurate, and was only used to show off, or in Wild West shows.


It is a game. And if you notice, hipfire is worse than ADS and the fan hammering only happens in hipfire. Thus, the worse accuracy is already represented.

Also, the fan hammering is an animation. What we really care about is the increased DPS conferred by hipfire. How it is illustrated has no value outside of eye candy.

You might just as well put in a feature where you can throw your weapon at the enemy to knock him out.


This could actually be pretty fun if done correctly.

Melee weapons are already just cleverly reskinned guns.

Having a fire animation for a OHK weapon where it involves throwing the weapon itself, maybe on its last shot, would be pretty funny.

The feature is a unauthentic gimmick, and we also do not need any more stuff to differentiate weapons. If anything we need less stats. Consistency is the key.


Why do we need less stats? Is the current paradigm too complex for you to understand?

You've previously complained about the lack of authenticity or intuition compared to BF4, but BF1 is a new game.

The skillset you built up from BF4 does not necessarily apply.

Learn how to play BF1 as BF1. Don't try to play it like it is BF4.



Besides, Sniper Rifles in BF4 are a good case study of what happens when you lack good balancing factors.

They were only meaningfully differentiated by Muzzle Velocity, Gravity, Magazine Capacity. and Rate of Fire.

They were dangerously close to being just clones.
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VincentNZ

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Friday, January 6th 2017, 1:40am

I take your point, I think I might have worded it a bit too strongly.

Actually I am rather overwhelmed by the amount of stats we have at the moment. I do think the more stramlined approach of BF4 is better.

Yeah I am kind of bummed out by the mechanics of BF1 compared to BF4. I do refuse to see BF1 as anything more than a new game of the franchise, so I naturally compare it to the predecessor. I do not see a huge difference between the two installments at all, bar the stats and mechanics, so I deliberately stat opinions, when I think adjustet mechanics of BF4 would be better for BF1 instead of new stuff.

The fanning is an annoying thing really. It would be fun as animation easter egg, like the sawed-off shotgun in Doomstyle, but this has never seen any real use, since Buffalo Bill times. Also hipfire would be even worse when fanning than standard hipfire, because you are constantly hitting the hammer from above. It is just a myth that the WW1 soldier would hit anything with this technique and it really degrades your weapon fast. In the end it does not matter a lot, but I rather have them put in a common ground for weapons with less variation.

But you are right that the BAs rather played the same, you were choosing a look mostly, when you were lookng for a choice beyond the SRR. But in the end the BAs in BF1 still play out rather similarily. When you deal a huge amount of damage at all ranges it does not matter a lot whether the sweetspot is at 120 or 140m. The SLME though is a better option because the spot lies so close.

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Friday, January 6th 2017, 3:49am

Fanning is cool. Also, a higher RoF in hipfire, where you're more likely to want to spam shots, and a lower RoF when ADS, where you're more likely to want aimed, accurate shots, makes perfect gameplay sense.

It's good for gameplay, looks badass, and does not break any technical realities of firearm use. That's a win-win-win.
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