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  • "Dantheminigunfox" started this thread

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Tuesday, December 20th 2016, 1:55pm

M1915 Chauchat speculation

With the upcoming 'They shall not pass' French themed DLC in March, it seems very possible that these weapons will be included, especially the latter which appeared in the latest stream of concept art. (Also it would be odd that the most popular LMG/Machine rifle will not be part of BF1).

Real life counterpart


When looking at the real life counterpart, the Chauchat is a very slow firing machine gun equipped with a rather cool half-moon 20 round magazine. The round it chambered was the 8mm Lebel, which is comparable to most of the standard WW1 rifle calibers.

The real life counterpart fired at 240RPM. IN BF1 terms, this would be slower than something like the M1907 Sweeper or Cei - Rigotti, both of which feature automatic fire modes of 299/300 RPM.

With this fact in mind, here is my proposal in balancing out this weapon. I will contrast this mostly the the Benet Mercie as it is currently the LMG most suitable at tapfire or automatic fire at long range.

The Benet Mercie fires at 450RPM and is equipped with a 30 Round strip magazine. The more accurate versions (Optical and Telescopic) have the following statistics;

Telescopic: 0.28 UP, 0.12 Horizontal, 1.25x FSM, -0.14 ADS SPREAD (Stand)
Optical: 0.28 UP, 0.096 Horizontal, 1.25x FSM, -0.158 ADS SPREAD (Stand)

Both weapons have a 5 kill at 38m which drops off to 6 at ranges >38.

The Chauchat could be the LMG with the slowest rate of fire, but possibly the only one that does not have a damage drop off, i.e. it would deal a 5 hit kill at all ranges. This would be offset by a very slow rate of fire of between 240 - 280 rounds per minute, similar to the real life counterpart. It would also have the lowest recoil, FSM and Spread decrease values of all the LMGS.

Summary;

Chauchat:
  • Rate of fire: 240 - 280RPM
  • FSM = 0.75X (Recoils less when tapped)
  • ADS Standing spread = Between 0.08 and 0.13, depending on variant
  • Recoil: 0.2UP 0.06 Horizontal (These figures are purely speculative and based only on how it compares to the Benet Mercie and the Huot)
  • Damage over range: 23 at all ranges (5 Shot kill)
  • Magazine size: 20
  • Reload time: Depends on the animation. The Chauchat magazine appears to be fairly straightforward to load when compared to other guns. Lets not forget that guns such as the Benet Mercie have incorrect reload animations (which is fine) for the its tactical reload.


Pros:
Unmatched ranged potential when dealing with threats beyond 40m. Would be perfect for dealing with snipers such as those found on Sinai Desert.
Very low rate of fire combined with low recoil and FSM

Cons:
Terrible DPS at closer ranges. Somewhat offset by extreme controllability. Will require the user to play tactically (as one should always do) rather than extreme wanton aggression.
Alternatively the gun can have a higher head shot multiplier to make it viable at closer ranges, e.g 2 headshots instead of 4.


I may do a more in depth comparison with the spread per shot multipliers but I think that is excessive for a speculative post. I just intended to provide a skeleton speculative post with the niche such a weapon would fulfill.

Post your thoughts plox :].

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Tuesday, December 20th 2016, 2:15pm

With that firerate it needs 4 hit kill up close, like 27-23 damage model. And it still can lose to pistol in CQB with that firerate.
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Tuesday, December 20th 2016, 2:25pm

If it's amazingly good at range it doesn't need to be good (or even useable) up close. Making it good at all ranges would not be balanced. Besides, support has access to the bulldog revolver, which has one of the best TTKs in the game (barring shotguns) out to 15 meters.

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Tuesday, December 20th 2016, 2:33pm

I'm almost certain the Chauchat makes it in the March DLC.
I'm curious how they will make an underperforming (because it's design was flawed) machinegun of WW1 viable in the game.

I also wonder what new vehicles we will be getting.
Maybe the Schneider and Saint-Chamond. Both French tanks:

Schneider CA1 - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Chamond_(tank)
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Tuesday, December 20th 2016, 2:36pm

It would also have the lowest recoil, FSM and Spread decrease values of all the LMGS.

are you sure about that?

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Tuesday, December 20th 2016, 3:38pm

If it's amazingly good at range it doesn't need to be good (or even useable) up close. Making it good at all ranges would not be balanced.
Even with the damage model @kazei009 suggested, it would still be vastly inferior to the vast majority of weapons up close


If it continues to be a minimum 5 bullet kill up close as well, it will definitely surpass the Huot as most ignored Support primary

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Tuesday, December 20th 2016, 3:38pm

IMO it'd be better as a Medic gun rather than support. The slow rate of fire fits better there and it could be used as a big brother to the M1907 SL. Also fits from a ballistics perspective: 8mm Lebel is a much heavier cartridge than .351SL or 6.5mm Carcano.
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Tuesday, December 20th 2016, 11:19pm

I can't say for sure since i can't be bothered to calculate all the numbers, but what you are suggesting here is basically objectively the worst LMG in the game; worse than the Huot by an order of magnitudes. It would have abysmall ranged TTK, and that 5 shot kill at all ranges will do jack to make up for the fact that it is literally half as fast as its competitors. EVERY weapon would outclass you; even the MP18 has better damage output than this. the bloody M1903 is a better CQB weapon than this. ANY siderarm bar the kolibri would be better than this. So it is horrendous at close range, it is horrendous at mid range and it is mediocre at best at long range.


My guess? Given that its long-range potential will be further hobbled by its abysmall muzzle velocity of 730m/s, it will be turned into a hard hitting, slow-but-steady all-rounder, with 37 max damage and 26.5 min damage, or perhaps 32 max damage (1-shot kill irregardless of impact area, even in legs) and 23 min damage, but that will be as low as i am willing to guess it.

Furthermore, long recoil guns have this habit of slamming into the shooter, giving them a very uncomfortable amount of recoil, so the kick would have some "oomph" to it and the damage would be done accordingly.

Quoted

IMO it'd be better as a Medic gun rather than support. The slow rate of fire fits better there and it could be used as a big brother to the M1907 SL. Also fits from a ballistics perspective: 8mm Lebel is a much heavier cartridge than .351SL or 6.5mm Carcano.


Well, that is false it is hardly any heavier than the 6.5mm or the .351 (162 grain and 180 grain vs 198 grain); its a 25 and 10% difference respectively.

But the French, after giving it some more research and thought, will probably get the Meunier with its earlier loadings; basically .308 Lapua ammo with lighter bullets, firing at a break neck 1040m/s. Probably will be a very slow rifle that has a 2-shot kill in close quarters (though a revolver will most likely be the most reliable of the 2 for CQB)

  • "Dantheminigunfox" started this thread

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Tuesday, December 20th 2016, 11:22pm

Quite varied opinions

I did think of the 4 shot kill concept. Perhaps the M60e4 of BF1. Though the idea was for something highly situational, i.e best beyond 40m hands down, terrible up close.

Also regarding that video, yea I have seen it. I have been subscribed to FW for a long time. I don't really care how guns handle in real life in terms how they translate in the game. For e.g. Totalbiscuits did a video with forgotten weapons to guage the handling of WW1 guns compared to BF1. They commented on how the MP18's recoil in BF1 is wildly exaggerated. This makes sense as the MP18 is a 4KG+ SMG that fires a 9x19mm round. Of course discussing realism is not the point of this, so yea :]

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Tuesday, December 20th 2016, 11:35pm

I'm almost certain the Chauchat makes it in the March DLC.
I'm curious how they will make an underperforming (because it's design was flawed) machinegun of WW1 viable in the game.

I also wonder what new vehicles we will be getting.
Maybe the Schneider and Saint-Chamond. Both French tanks:

Schneider CA1 - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Chamond_(tank)

It wasn't underperforming. Unlike every other LMG in the game, the Chauchat was actually available in theater-relevant quantities during the actual war. There were about 5 Chauchats for every Lewis. The BAR was a Chauchat replacement and made a big impression but was too late and in too little quantity of really make an impact.

There were barely any Bennets made (< 2000). There were likewise few Madsens. Germany didn't end up deploying that many MG15s despite desperately needing them - again much few than the Chauchats.

In terms of actually fielding weapons - the Chauchat eclipsed all other models combined more or less.

Since BF1 weapons are practically speaking pure military fiction in terms of relating to the actual battlefield deployments, they can make the Chauchat do whatever the hell they want.