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  • "JSLICE20" started this thread

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51

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 8:15pm

What about a canister shell-firing Rocket Gun, as an "AA Rocket Gun"? Would naturally get less effective over distance, giving it a natural range limit, and making it exceptional at point defence and protecting against low strafing runs (etc) while also not being able to be spammed cross-map in hopes of an easy kill. Seems like a win for everyone.

Unless this were an ammo option one could switch to like the various XBOW bolts in BF3, I would not even consider using this. I avoided equipping the MANPADs in BF4 because armor was a more constant threat than aircraft. That same philosophy applies to BF1. While planes are essentially the combination of helicopters and jets of BF4 (effective infantry and anti-air armamnets), tanks are more influential to winning a match which is why I focus on them more intently. If a plane entered a low strafe in my vicinity I'd take a shot at it, certainly, but my attention would still be lured to any potential armor threats. Interesting concept, however. I'll give you that. :)

The great thing about C4 and launchers oneshotting armor and air vehicles is that they were always high risk, but high reward that always put the driver of said vehicles on high alert and respectful of infantry options.
If I was oneshotted by a C4 Support/jihad jeep while driving a LAV/AAMTRAC, or exploded by a launcher while hovering a Little Bird, I never thought, "Wow, that's cheap and unfun." That's a natural consequence of not covering your angles and not respecting the capabilities of a single ground infantry who can completely ruin your day.
By this same logic, Battle Pickups in BF1 shouldn't be oneshotted by melee and bayonets since they're basically the equivalent of armored vehicles that trash infantry.

There is a slight contradiction between the first two statements and the third in my perspective. I would surmise we share the same logic in that the closer one is to a vehicle the more damage one should inflict which is consistent in many if not all Battlefield games. You cited that getting instakilled by C4 in an armored vehicle or via RPG in a helicopter that it was a natural consequence of getting outplayed essentially. You were out of position or not paying attention and you paid the price for a degree of negligence. Couldn't the same principle be applied to Elites in BF1? That if one can get close enough to the threat one should encompass full and immediately killing potential? Other than that, we appear to be like minded in this regard.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


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52

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 8:17pm

I have no problem with OHKs against vehicles in battlefield providing the situation only happens through luck, high-skill, and failure on the part of the guy getting shot - ie highly situational things that can largely be avoided unless you're really unlucky. In the case of planes getting derped by rocket guns all THREE of those things need to happen and sometimes you just get unlucky and someone derps you with a field gun from like 1 km away.

Getting C4'ed in a tank is frustrating, but after logging an embarassingly large amount of hours throughout all of the battlefield games it's never really broken tank mechanics. Air things have always been glass cannons that need to outfly and outspoof the enemy to stay alive.

Tanks are actually a non-zero risk to planes and they OHK. I figure I bag about 1-2 planes a round where they spawn on average, which is actually a pretty big chunk of m,y total vehicle kills in any given round since there aren't THAT many tanks running around.

Rocket gun OHKs wouldn't even have a measurable impact on the air balance thing because most people won't even waste their shots unless it's a likely thing. You get much better return derping snipers and people in fixed guns with it if you don't have tanks to shoot at.

And either way, it's the least relevant aspect of rebalancing the rocket gun. Not that I think other aspects of it really need rebalancing.

I completely disagree that the ground vehicles are more powerful relative to the rest of the game than in BF4. The only aspect where tanks are better is the lack of easy ways to generally kill tanks at extreme ranges, so that people who aren't very good with them can effectively back-camp and farm kills without suffering the swifter death that was typical in BF4. Even tanks can't really fight other tanks at extreme ranges because of hits to kill vs mag size, vs countermeasures vs mobility vs aiming. No buff to the rocket gun is going to fix this issue but kill farming generally translates to the enemy tanks smushing their team and capping flags, so it's self defeating and is countered by the meta game as a result.

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53

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 8:46pm

Couldn't the same principle be applied to Elites in BF1? That if one can get close enough to the threat one should encompass full and immediately killing potential? Other than that, we appear to be like minded in this regard.
That is precisely the same contradiction I presented to Uranium, and he actually agreed that Elites shouldn't be oneshotted just like vehicles in BF1

I am strongly for 1HKOs on vehicles the same reason why bayonets and melee are extremely effective against Elite pickups. Getting close to either takes a massive risk of you being killed swiftly, but if you're able to close the gap the Elite is able to be outplayed by a single player. Some Elites are way more dangerous up close (Villar Perosa), others need a safe range to operate effectively (MG08/15), and some are a hybrid of both (Flame Trooper needs to be in close quarters to maximize TTK potential but is also extremely vulnerable to being bayonet charged or kited, Tank Hunter terrorizes infantry near and afar but has very limited magazine sizes and is vulnerable to being caught pants down).

All of them are opponents you absolutely do not want to tip off your location and should be either focus fired like AT squads ganging up on a tank, or snuck around and taken down swiftly like an Engineer or Support laying down mines/C4 to 1HKO

On another subject, I belive armored cars desperately need a HP buff so they aren't 1HKO'd by any tank.

  • "JSLICE20" started this thread

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54

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 8:52pm

On another subject, I belive armored cars desperately need a HP buff so they aren't 1HKO'd by any tank.

This is neither here nor there concerning the topic, but I have to agree here. Lightly armored transports can get pulverized by armored piercing and high explosive rounds a little too quickly for them to be useful.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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55

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 9:16pm

@C0llis

It would be alright if they did spend their time to deal with air threats, which they do not. Well, maybe every so often a guy might think he should deal with the air threats, but the only thing I ever see is them dropping darts. I see more attack planes engage in air combat than fighters.
I have spent reasonable time in the tail gunner seats, too and the only thing ever (and still) engaging me in the bomber or the attack plane are other attack planes. I spend a lot of time in the SAAs as well, and even there, where I follow my targets a lot and I very rarely see them actively seek out aerial combat. I see them dropping the darts a lot though. Naturally I would not be in the SAA so much, if the fighters would hunt down the planes more.

It is a flaw within the spawn system mostly, if we had one plane of each type, each one with a designated and a secondary role, there would be less need to complain. It is a similar issue with the Flanker, but we had the discussion before. The reason why this does not apply to the other to FT variants is simply, because they are very niche or underperforming.

Anyway we had this discussion before, I know that I am rather alone here with my opinion, but we get derailed here. I just reckon we would have less discussions about vehicle balance if the spawns were fixed.

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56

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 9:21pm

Couldn't the same principle be applied to Elites in BF1? That if one can get close enough to the threat one should encompass full and immediately killing potential? Other than that, we appear to be like minded in this regard.
That is precisely the same contradiction I presented to Uranium, and he actually agreed that Elites shouldn't be oneshotted just like vehicles in BF1

I am strongly for 1HKOs on vehicles the same reason why bayonets and melee are extremely effective against Elite pickups. Getting close to either takes a massive risk of you being killed swiftly, but if you're able to close the gap the Elite is able to be outplayed by a single player. Some Elites are way more dangerous up close (Villar Perosa), others need a safe range to operate effectively (MG08/15), and some are a hybrid of both (Flame Trooper needs to be in close quarters to maximize TTK potential but is also extremely vulnerable to being bayonet charged or kited, Tank Hunter terrorizes infantry near and afar but has very limited magazine sizes and is vulnerable to being caught pants down).

All of them are opponents you absolutely do not want to tip off your location and should be either focus fired like AT squads ganging up on a tank, or snuck around and taken down swiftly like an Engineer or Support laying down mines/C4 to 1HKO

On another subject, I belive armored cars desperately need a HP buff so they aren't 1HKO'd by any tank.

There is a sneaky 1HK option against vehicles in bf1; mines. Place them right next to a tank and set them off with a grenade or gunshot and watch tank go boom.
IMHO C4 was a bit too potent against tanks in BF3 and 4, it was a much easier way to take out tanks than using RPGs etc, since you didn't have to reveal your position. There's some risk of getting spotted while planting, sure, but one infantry death matters little in the big picture, while eliminating a tank can turn the tide of battle.

At least there's nothing like Jihad Jeeps in BF1...
bob

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57

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 9:25pm

Couldn't the same principle be applied to Elites in BF1? That if one can get close enough to the threat one should encompass full and immediately killing potential? Other than that, we appear to be like minded in this regard.
That is precisely the same contradiction I presented to Uranium, and he actually agreed that Elites shouldn't be oneshotted just like vehicles in BF1

I am strongly for 1HKOs on vehicles the same reason why bayonets and melee are extremely effective against Elite pickups. Getting close to either takes a massive risk of you being killed swiftly, but if you're able to close the gap the Elite is able to be outplayed by a single player. Some Elites are way more dangerous up close (Villar Perosa), others need a safe range to operate effectively (MG08/15), and some are a hybrid of both (Flame Trooper needs to be in close quarters to maximize TTK potential but is also extremely vulnerable to being bayonet charged or kited, Tank Hunter terrorizes infantry near and afar but has very limited magazine sizes and is vulnerable to being caught pants down).

All of them are opponents you absolutely do not want to tip off your location and should be either focus fired like AT squads ganging up on a tank, or snuck around and taken down swiftly like an Engineer or Support laying down mines/C4 to 1HKO

On another subject, I belive armored cars desperately need a HP buff so they aren't 1HKO'd by any tank.

They aren't. They are like an 80-90 point hit for HE. One shot derping of them requires using a specialty gun.

  • "JSLICE20" started this thread

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58

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 9:39pm

There is a sneaky 1HK option against vehicles in bf1; mines. Place them right next to a tank and set them off with a grenade or gunshot and watch tank go boom.

Yes, I am aware of this tactic but I find Dynamite to be more a more versatile option for anti-infantry purposes as well. But this would probably be a more beneficial option on large, open maps where infantry are more spaced out.

There's some risk of getting spotted while planting, sure, but one infantry death matters little in the big picture, while eliminating a tank can turn the tide of battle.

This is precisely what frustrates me about Dynamite in its current status. I'll willingly sacrifice one of my deaths if that means removing one tank from the equation as they are often the deciding factor in victories. But unless one has both AT Grenades and Dynamite equipped or opts for Mines, stealth-ing tanks is just not feasible as the Rocket Gun is far too valuable to not include in the loadout.

Coupling it with Mines may be the best option for now though, so you make a good observation.

I'm even straying off topic at this point. I may as well change the title to Assault Gadgets haha.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
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    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
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        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Oscar

Sona tank jungle

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: May 30th 2012

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59

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 9:40pm

Couldn't the same principle be applied to Elites in BF1? That if one can get close enough to the threat one should encompass full and immediately killing potential? Other than that, we appear to be like minded in this regard.
That is precisely the same contradiction I presented to Uranium, and he actually agreed that Elites shouldn't be oneshotted just like vehicles in BF1

I am strongly for 1HKOs on vehicles the same reason why bayonets and melee are extremely effective against Elite pickups. Getting close to either takes a massive risk of you being killed swiftly, but if you're able to close the gap the Elite is able to be outplayed by a single player. Some Elites are way more dangerous up close (Villar Perosa), others need a safe range to operate effectively (MG08/15), and some are a hybrid of both (Flame Trooper needs to be in close quarters to maximize TTK potential but is also extremely vulnerable to being bayonet charged or kited, Tank Hunter terrorizes infantry near and afar but has very limited magazine sizes and is vulnerable to being caught pants down).

All of them are opponents you absolutely do not want to tip off your location and should be either focus fired like AT squads ganging up on a tank, or snuck around and taken down swiftly like an Engineer or Support laying down mines/C4 to 1HKO

On another subject, I belive armored cars desperately need a HP buff so they aren't 1HKO'd by any tank.

They aren't. They are like an 80-90 point hit for HE. One shot derping of them requires using a specialty gun.

I was about to say this. 57mm HE doesn't OHK, but 57mm AT does. Tankgewehr is a 2HK on good angle hits (or at least, the Landship mounted TGewehr).

Unsure about Field Gun (which the default Artillery Truck carries in the back, too), 37mm and 75mm since I've neved experienced those cases.
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I find majority of the complaints I hear about this game somehow never appear in my games.

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: Mar 19th 2014

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60

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 10:01pm

What about a canister shell-firing Rocket Gun, as an "AA Rocket Gun"? Would naturally get less effective over distance, giving it a natural range limit, and making it exceptional at point defence and protecting against low strafing runs (etc) while also not being able to be spammed cross-map in hopes of an easy kill. Seems like a win for everyone.

Unless this were an ammo option one could switch to like the various XBOW bolts in BF3, I would not even consider using this. I avoided equipping the MANPADs in BF4 because armor was a more constant threat than aircraft. That same philosophy applies to BF1. While planes are essentially the combination of helicopters and jets of BF4 (effective infantry and anti-air armamnets), tanks are more influential to winning a match which is why I focus on them more intently. If a plane entered a low strafe in my vicinity I'd take a shot at it, certainly, but my attention would still be lured to any potential armor threats. Interesting concept, however. I'll give you that. :)


You're seriously telling me that you wouldn't use an enormous shotgun that can decimate both air and infantry? It's the paired opposite to the current AT version, which excels at dealing with armour and long range, stationary infantry. This deals with planes and more mobile, close range infantry. Both would be incredibly useful, just situational.
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