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Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 10:03am

Yeah it does make sense, they already do a lot of damage though, the low bullet counts and the overheat for a small part hinder the LMGs to be potent AA. The MG15 though can put some constant pressure though on planes. However you will have other stuff to do than stalk planes so you will mostly shoot at it when it is coming your way, which will very likely mean the pilot is desperately looking to meet you.

Mostly it is the motivation of players that hinders more AA though. As said, you might not see the planes or you might be occupied with other stuff, or you just do not bother. I think the damage is enough on planes from bullets.

As for the rocket gun: With the amount of damage planes take already a OHK would be a bit overkill. I would not oppose a buff though, because if anyone flies as low to put himself in reach of the rocket guns he deserves to get hit really hard.

On the other side though, no vehicle is as riskless as the planes are, as you can always get out, and the gunners do not even have an underperforming kit, then. Here lies a propblem, I would want to see the pilot's health tied to the vehicle health, so if you jump out of your plane with 12% left you will land with 12% HP. I would also want exit animations to prevent avoiding death from people who outplayed you. I mean DICE made a great deal to have enter animations and seat switch animations, but exiting is instant? Come on...
Tanks one hit kill just about anything in the game other than other heavier vehicles......

VincentNZ

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42

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 11:20am

Yeah it does make sense, they already do a lot of damage though, the low bullet counts and the overheat for a small part hinder the LMGs to be potent AA. The MG15 though can put some constant pressure though on planes. However you will have other stuff to do than stalk planes so you will mostly shoot at it when it is coming your way, which will very likely mean the pilot is desperately looking to meet you.

Mostly it is the motivation of players that hinders more AA though. As said, you might not see the planes or you might be occupied with other stuff, or you just do not bother. I think the damage is enough on planes from bullets.

As for the rocket gun: With the amount of damage planes take already a OHK would be a bit overkill. I would not oppose a buff though, because if anyone flies as low to put himself in reach of the rocket guns he deserves to get hit really hard.

On the other side though, no vehicle is as riskless as the planes are, as you can always get out, and the gunners do not even have an underperforming kit, then. Here lies a propblem, I would want to see the pilot's health tied to the vehicle health, so if you jump out of your plane with 12% left you will land with 12% HP. I would also want exit animations to prevent avoiding death from people who outplayed you. I mean DICE made a great deal to have enter animations and seat switch animations, but exiting is instant? Come on...
Tanks one hit kill just about anything in the game other than other heavier vehicles......


Sorry, I do not know, why did you quote me on that? Could you elaborate, please? :)

VincentNZ

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43

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 11:31am

As long as you don't REALLY screw yourself over, tanks can generally withdraw from AT fire more effectively than planes once they get bracketted by that SAA, unless they get lit up really at the edge of the SAA range and the plane can evac instantly.

I think the least interesting aspect of the plane dynamics is that while tanks can effectively operate while being engaged by anti-tank, planes can only beat their counters either by setting up to strafe their counters at the edge of their range (dofighter cannon sniping, super high altitude bombing) or by simply not going there.


Actually that's my main source of dying when in a Fighter, getting surprised by an AA at short range. The most dangerous AA gunners are the sneaky ones, waiting the last moment to open fire. That, and when they shoot at you during an actual dogfight :thumbdown:

And yeah OHK with the rocket gun seems very harsh to me. It should be reserved to AT guns of all sort, like the one on the Breakthrough.


Yeah this is true, I apply that tactic often when there is a fighter pilot that is really "good", i.e. that relies too much on infantry killing for my liking. Firing while he is in a strafe so close that his greedy ass can or will not abort it, will more likely result in a kill than just trying to keep it at bay. Generally it is a good idea to lull people into a false sense of security and hit hard. However with this tactic you are openly putting your teammates at risk for a kill, it might not be worth it. The SAA works great as an area of denial tool, but as mostly only one is under your control at all times and it is hard to keep track of all planes.

C0llis

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Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 1:47pm

Vincent, I do not get your problem with aircraft killing infantry. Barring 2 bombers and one attack plane which are able to deal meaningful damage to armor the only way for aircraft to impact the ground game is to kill infantry or prevent enemy aircraft from killing their team's infantry (which is just the other side of the same coin).

You and I both know that the ground game is what matters, so a plane that kills infantry is helping its team. Planes that does not kill anything on the ground do not help their team, unless in doing so they help other planes on their team kill stuff on the ground (i.e. fighter protecting friendly bombers).

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And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

VincentNZ

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Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 2:46pm

Na the Trench Fighters annoy me. I do not have problems with the Bombers or the Attack Planes, but the trench is bothering me for the same reasons as I do not like the Flanker. I think they are taking away a useful vehicle slot for personal gain only. You have these pilots in every round by now, they go 30-3 or so, and I know that all their kills come from attacking infantry, although the fighter role should also be to engage flying units. Also with little to no damage they do to planes or vehicles their infantry killing is rather meaningless for the round. You could give the fighter the trench darts and deal 90 damage instead of 100 to infantry and nobody would use it anymore because it does not guarantee kills any longer.

It is also fault of the generic vehicle spawn system, where you can have three fighters in the air at once all running the trench loadout. If everybody used bombers or you had one of each plane in the sky, everything would be better in my opinion, even though the SAA would have a harder time.

Oscar

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46

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 3:13pm

Na the Trench Fighters annoy me. I do not have problems with the Bombers or the Attack Planes, but the trench is bothering me for the same reasons as I do not like the Flanker. I think they are taking away a useful vehicle slot for personal gain only. You have these pilots in every round by now, they go 30-3 or so, and I know that all their kills come from attacking infantry, although the fighter role should also be to engage flying units. Also with little to no damage they do to planes or vehicles their infantry killing is rather meaningless for the round. You could give the fighter the trench darts and deal 90 damage instead of 100 to infantry and nobody would use it anymore because it does not guarantee kills any longer.

It is also fault of the generic vehicle spawn system, where you can have three fighters in the air at once all running the trench loadout. If everybody used bombers or you had one of each plane in the sky, everything would be better in my opinion, even though the SAA would have a harder time.

Trench darts deal 20 "each", and the plane deploys 4 volleys (which have idk how many darts).

You simply can't make the dart deal "90" damage. Maybe a radius nerf, but a straight up damage nerf doesn't work.
Bro of Legion, the lurker ninja mod | Tesla FTW | RNG is evil.

Quoted from "MsMuchLove"

I find majority of the complaints I hear about this game somehow never appear in my games.

C0llis

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47

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 3:38pm

@VincentNZ

That's a weird argument. So an attack plane going 30-3 is ok, because it has an extra seat so a blueberry can sit there and take potshots?

The trench fighter dropping darts is splitting his time between enemy air (helping his team) and killing infantry (helping his team). If the trench fighter didn't take care of enemy air it would not go 30-3, it's as simple as that (or the other team's pilots suck hard and take care of themselves, but that's beside the point). Of course most of the kills come from infantry, aircraft only spawn every so often and a lot of pilots bail before the plane is destroyed. If one team has a fighter alive for a long time and scoring a lot of kills it generally means that the other team doesn't have any aircraft alive because of that fighter and thus the fighter has time and freedom to go after infantry. After the last patch the fighters are actually really good at A2A, they no longer deal "little to no damage".

The trench fighter also comes with spotting flares, which are a great teamwork asset and helps a lot. Players don't notice them or their impact because only the user can see the spotting areas (like scout's flares), but they can help infantry clear a flag by finding that guy hiding in a corner or lighting up all enemies along a front.

Why is the flanker only "personal gain", but not any of the other light tanks or the artillery truck? The default light tank is far worse against infantry and only marginally better against vehicles and the howitzer has about equal effectiveness but is more niched and requires specific conditions to really shine due to the limited turret traversal. The argument that it isn't "teamplay" because it's a single seater is faulty (killing infantry and laying mines while also freeing up blueberries to do other stuff than watching your rear isn't teamplay?) + you are inconsistent when applying it; and the argument that it isn't "teamplay" because some players camp with it is also faulty, because all vehicles (and even infantry classes) can do that.

Finally, you are absolutely correct that no one would use the trench darts if they didn't kill. Trench darts barely has any impact as it is, they pretty much only allows the fighter to take out (1-2) key infantry every so often, not enough to break a push or clear a flag, but enough to take out stationary weapon operators or a couple of players hiding in a crater. It's just enough to give friendly infantry the edge in a push or defend, not more. Making them more effective would encroach on the attack plane, and making them less effective would make it useless and people would stop using the trench fighter (which would more importantly mean that they would stop dropping flares on enemy positions, which is the real kicker of the trench fighter, next to its A2A prowess).

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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48

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 5:11pm

Indeed, the Trench Fighter is one of the best options for teamplay. Fantastic AA cannons, excellent anti-infantry secondary, spotting flares, very fast and highly manoeuvrable (gets in and out quickly, can evade/escape AA fire), and it only takes up a single team member.

Sure it can't take on armour, but very few planes can in any meaningful way, and those that can aren't amazing at it and/or trade off significant other factors as a result. A competent Trench pilot is one of the best pilots you could ask for.
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  • "JSLICE20" started this thread

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49

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 7:33pm

The most dangerous AA gunners are the sneaky ones, waiting the last moment to open fire. That, and when they shoot at you during an actual dogfight

Let's reverse this tangent of Fighters and return to the topic at hand, shall we?

At any rate:
I just so happen to be one of those stealthy flak cannon operators. Te-he. Patiently lying in wait for the ultimate moment where that helpless plane enters my airspace completely unaware of my presence where I proceed to mercilessly open fire. Bit by bit his fuselage receiving unrelenting punishment and his wings being torn to shreds by lethal shrapnel to the point where his flaming carcass violently impacts the ground with a satisfying thud. Mmmmm, delicious...

Moderate pyscopathic instance aside, I still fail to comprehend the reasoning behind the mentality of preventing the Rocket Gun from instakilling out of position aircraft. I see the concern presented by those of you who share this stance, but the point remains that infantry require a one shot kill or instant kill ability against all types of armored and airborne vehicles. Vehicles are the most powerful tool at one's disposal for killing potential. Tankers and pilots have protection; the vehicle acts as a buffer between themselves and the threats outside the vehicle which sustains their life well past that of a simple infantryman. A very low risk at a potentially high reward.

This is skewed for infantry against vehicles. An example: 3 charges of Dynamite should completely destroy an armored target, not cripple it. The element of surprise is vital to encroaching upon a tank's position and when the ordinace at your disposal is unequipped to destroy that threat quickly and immediately, that same key element is lost and the tank now has the advantage. Through enabling an Emergency repair function, he can retreat into a covered position and proceed to replenish the remainder of his health while knowing an immediate threat is nearby enhancing his awareness.

While the Dynamte concept doesn't apply to planes even in a Dynamite - Rocket Gun transfer, (as the element of surprise isn't even applicable when shooting anti-tank ordinace at aircraft) pilots still benefit from a low risk - high reward system. Infantry do not have many anti-aircraft options at all and even with a proposed damage increase of standard projectiles against planes. Incremental damage means nothing against a fast moving target that can retreat to the far corners of the map and proceed to engage their various repair functions. Also, it isn't a guarantee that other planes will even notice or attack that damaged aircraft as they may be distracted by their own strafes against soldiers on the ground.

There has to be a sure fire method for infantry to immediately dispatch of aircraft in one foul swoop if there is an opportunity. The reason vehicles are so productive in Battlefield 1 is because there are very few counters that a generic soldier possesses, and not only is there a lack in quantity but quality as well. Rocket Guns and Dynamite perform at a much lower level than their future RPG and C4 counterparts, and while the same sentiment can be argued for tanks and planes the direct relationship of effectiveness favors vehicles more significantly in BF1.

A suggestion of compromise would be to incorporate a Damage Fall off distance of 100m in our hypothetical circumstance; any impact past this distance would not instantly destroy the airplane. This eliminates any concern for across-the-map lucky shots. I still retain that if a plane is within a relatively straight line trajectory of a Rocket Gun, that one should be able to eliminate or at the very least critically disable that incoming/ outgoing plane.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Dec 21st 2016, 7:42pm)


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50

Wednesday, December 21st 2016, 7:49pm

Or, AA Rocket (Shot)Gun. Canister Shells.
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