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31

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 10:26pm

People cite that the 1 round mag is a detriment but the fact of the matter is reloading does not matter if the enemies are dead and the Martini had a definite advantage in that department.

why are people always talking about these purely theoretical 1v1 duels. Battlefield is not a 1v1 game, especially if you play the objective and are around flags.

the low rate of fire of fire with the complete absence of a magazine is a huge detriment for the martini. this absolutely justifies the different dmg properties. It's a different kind of gun, with a different kind of playstyle that requires different body part multipliers to be worthwhile.

if the martini is truly too strong, which is something i deny without seeing any actual statistical data you can nerf it in different ways. the easiest would be to just slightly reduce the rate of fire some more. make it's primary weakness bigger, don't nerf/remove it's unique and fun way to play.

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32

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 10:49pm

Because 1) the weapon should be functional by itself and 2) 1v1s are possible (and in the case of the Auto .35 and Martini-Henry the maximum engagement size they are designed for) and 3) I can easily argue for 5 MHs vs 1 Lewis as easy as you can argue 5 Lewis vs 1 MH, that is to say 1v1 is the most basic and consistent scale to discuss.



If you are fighting 5 guys at once, you are bound to lose without a large magazine or quick reload.

This does not mean the MH is unable to deal with large numbers.

Instead of fighting all 5 at the same time, you force them to engage in five 1v1s instead of a single 5v1.

You are forced to play differently than if you had an SMLE.



The statistical data for the MH being overpowered was its 1.0x multiplier to limbs.

If you want to base what is overpowered on popularity, then you'll just end up in a never-ending cycle of nerfing whatever weapon is number 1.

This has been discussed before and the conclusion is the same now as it was then: popularity is not a good metric to gauge whether something is overpowered.



The Martini already has different damage properties outside of multipliers.

It starts with 90 damage. This has major implications for sidearm choices or other follow-ups even if others dismiss it.

It has a large sweetspot at closer range than any other rifle. In a class of weapons where positioning REALLY matters, the size and location of the sweetspot is a huge factor in its relevance.

The MH has a close range sweetspot larger than the SMLE in exchange for a small magazine. The velocity is irrelevant when in close quarters.

The different multipliers were an inconsistency, not a feature.



The MH's different multipliers were a bug.

A variety of bugs have been fun to use such as the M26 DART on the G3A3.

Does not mean it should stay.

Furthermore, nerfing the weakness more is not going to actually solve the problem which was the MH was bugged.



Evidently DICE believed what made the MH unique was its limitation to 1v1s, or in other words forcing the player to rapidly engage, disengage, and repeat.

NOT an erroneous ability to kill players by grazing them.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Dec 17th 2016, 11:25pm)


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33

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 10:58pm

>implying he was talking about fighting multiple enemies alone

in a teams-based game such as battlefield, you can have 1v1 fights, 1v2 fights, 2v4 fights, 1v8 fights and even 12v12 fights, and while 1v1s are definitely the most common single type of encounters, multiple enemiesVSmultiple enemies in undefined numbers are way more common, and that requires you to have more than one shot to be effective otherwise you're either going to be useless or need to have steel nerves due to the chaos and unnerving thought of the chance you might be targeted by everyone at once, and that also means you have to be accurate, more accurate than the average as an enemy with their guard up tends to be harder to hit, especially when it's more than one.

if the game was all about getting into fight's with only 1 opponent, wheter that you or the enemy, then it wouldn't be battlefield,and for a gune to be viable in such scenarios it needs particularly high lethality or a decent killing potential, something the martini lacks due to already discussed reasons about accuracy, oh, and about the close quarters damage, the gewehr 95 also has that.

nobody is saying they shouldn't have fixed it(again, at least here) however, they shouldn't just have kept the martini as it was based on stats, and i don't see why tinkering with multipliers would be so bad, it might be the so-longed-after next balancing value for sniper rifles(which by the way is something cod already does since modern warfare 2)
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34

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 11:24pm

We really shouldn't get hung up on whether this was a "nerf" or a "bug fix", they changed the martini-henry and I argue the game is worse for it. At times some of the best, most interesting and fun game mechanics resulted from so called "bugs". Even if we believe that the dev that specifically set non standard body multiplier values for the martini-henry made an honest to god mistake, if the game is better for it, we should keep it that way!

Alternatively they can keep the body multipliers on the new value and just increase the max dmg of the martini-henry to 115 instead of 100. this would keep the legs and lower arms out of the ohk zone and might be somewhat of a compromise...

Finally rate of fire for the martini matters a great deal. The idea that you can simply decide to make any game situation a succession of 1v1s were every opponent waits until you are again ready to fire is simply not realistic. Then there is the time it takes to kill multiple people, in the time you can kill 3 people with the smle you can at most kill 2 with the martini-henry, that's significant!

To make the martini-henry a fun gun to use it requires at least a ohk in it's sweet spot for head, upper and lower torso and upper arm. It is absolutely possible to make the martini henry a balanced weapon with these properties, that should be the goal for dice!

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35

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 11:30pm

The idea that you can simply decide to make any game situation a succession of 1v1s were every opponent waits until you are again ready to fire is simply not realistic.


Peek corner.

Fire.

Duck behind corner.

Performing this repeatedly and effectively requires limiting your exposure time. This has been previously outlined before.

You can also kite out your enemies using the terrain to limit how many people engage you.

Be creative.



@iota-09

Having +10 starting damage and a larger sweetspot at close range does not qualify as particularly high lethality?

The Gewehr 95 lacks a sweetspot.
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This post by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Saturday, December 17th 2016, 11:30pm) has been deleted by the author himself (Saturday, December 17th 2016, 11:31pm) with the following reason: double post

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37

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 11:33pm

come on this is ridiculously naive and bares no actual gameplay relevance.

enemies can move, if someone with a bolt action dares to come close and play the objective they are going to rush you down. you are just making assumptions that are of no value to this discussion...

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38

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 11:36pm

enemies can move


This is an action required by the enemy for kiting to work.

So yes, I am counting on for the enemy to move.

if someone with a bolt action dares to come close and play the objective they are going to rush you down. you are just making assumptions that are of no value to this discussion...


Your own statement is an assumption as well.

The enemy could also not rush me.

There are a variety of other choices they can make such as flanking or simply hiding.

On top of that, the Martini Henry, 1895 Trench, Gewehr 95, and the SMLE are all for close-up engagements.

Of course, they are not effective as shotguns or SMGs, but it is not as if the Scout automatically loses by playing close-up.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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39

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 11:39pm

jea, but a martini-henry with a ohk that extents to lower torso and upper arms doesn't automatically win either. it's more consistent, more fun and more balanced. why should the martini henry not have these properties if it makes for a genuinely different and better gameplay experience?

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40

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 11:44pm

That is because it is still going to have a lot more lax requirement on where to aim in comparison to other options like the SMLE.

I do not consider the one round magazine to be enough of a detriment to warrant looser restrictions on OHK hitboxes when combined with its more lax positioning requirements.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.