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## The Martini "fix/nerf"

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PvF 2017 Champion

Posts: 7,220

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

Friday, December 16th 2016, 9:29pm

### Quoted from "h0munkulus"

A game should not be balanced around some mathematical concept of balance, but around making the game as enjoyable as possible for as many people as possible.

except that dice wants to make the battlefield series e-sports(hard to believe i know) so they HAVE to do it, then again, the martini is really a special case here, how do you balance via math a gun that shots only one round then reloads?

Yep.

DICE isn't interested in making a party game. They're interested in making a competitive game.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

### Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it dies™.

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,718

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 11:20am

With a spawn system like this, the game can never be competitive. I mean players spawning ten metres behind you, while you reload two seconds after killing the enemy, does not meet a lot of acceptance in a competitive setting. BF1 also has the most campable spawn spots in BF history.

I also find it hard to believe DICE will do anything about the maps and the sizes and playercounts. You will never balance 64 players, with a variety of gadgets, vehicles and weapons in a way that makes it appealing enough to the crowd we call e-sport.

Plus of course you can always rely on the competitive scene itself to destroy the game and ignore every effort by DICE. I know many guys here like the different approaches to damage, ROF, spread and all the experiments DICE did. I do applaud them for the effort and the guts to try new things, despite me not liking many things, but look at BF4 where the performance of weapons was rather close and the performance differences rather small, and then take a look how this was made a mockery of by the "official" leagues.
Basically there were two classes played and two weapons used. I can not believe this will change, as BF1 is more about aiming "skill" than any BF before and the effectiveness of weapons varies greatly between maps, playstyle, gamemode and personal proficiency. So either they will resort to play Domination/TDM again banning all shotguns, scout rifles, mortars, limpets, rifle grenades, crossbow (anything indirect, you get my drift), while so many other weapons become totally obsolete and therefore unusable, or they will find some other perverted BF1 mode that is so far away from 99% of the playerbase experience, that it could be any other FPS.

Sure enough there is a distinct difference between e-sport league players and competitive players; many people consider themselves competitive players. Basically this means they know a bit more about the game and can therefore exploit the mechanics so they can thrive. Often this involves being very proficient in one certain tool that one has mastered, usually a vehicle. But let us face it, what most competitive people do all day, is farm players on public servers. They would never play unranked matches with proficient matchmaking, because where is the fun, when everybody is on the same level and stats are not recorded?

I said this before, if you want the franchise to turn to be more competitive you have to include everyone in the community, and also force everyone to play the game you want them to play. This would mean official DICE leagues, a ladder system, where you gain points and achieve higher leagues, an effective matchmaking system so that you always play on your level, clan matches etc.
But DICE has even failed to deliver basic social features, we do not have tags, we do no thave clans, we can not even create emblems unless we use our phone, we can not assess our gameplay by battlereports or see how good we were without resorting to third party sites.
Also I do not think I ever played on a rented server, so at least DICE makes the rules all the time. But this means that setups that might be better, will never be played or experienced. If anything this is the most "pub" game of the franchise I've ever seen.

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 3:32pm

In response to the fun factor I must agree that the Martini Henry has lost some of its luster, however I also accept that since it was not performing as intended it required to be balanced. Granted, the Martini Henry was still a challenging rifle to reliably lead targets with due to its uncommonly slow velocity prior to the bug fix (a decision made with game balance in mind), it has come in line with the rest of the Scout weapons in terms of the 0.9 multiplier. A change made with the intention to balance the game is always a good thing despite the chance that it could reduce the enjoyment.

We must realize that since the "sweet spot" mechanic was introduced there is an even greater emphasis on extremely accurate shooting when targeting soldiers running perpendicular or at a sharp angle to one's point of reference (to which this is exacerbated with a limitation to Iron Sights). In those situations, the chest region is significantly smaller due to being partially covered by the arm implying that a torso hit within the "sweet spot" range of one's preferred rifle will not always be a guaranteed kill.

In previous Battlefields this has never been an issue since headshots were the only reliable form of killing a full health opponent, and therefore was not an area of concern when limbs were struck. Now that sniping has evolved, perhaps the limb multiplier should evolve alongside it. We know that bullets travel through multiple targets, so by the same token DICE could alter the soldier skeletal system to sense a bullet passing through the arm and into the chest in the extreme angle situations. In fact, though I do not have undeniable proof and is purely based on conjecture, I believe that I have encountered a situation in Battlefield where I am behind a prone opponent at an angle where their back is partially covering the head. Now it could be related to the hit box, but I recall on multiple occasions shooting through the back and into the head. Theoretically, the bullet-passing-through-body-components system exists so by the same theory it could be transferred to the arm-chest dilemma (not to mention that certain objects in the world can be shot through indicating that it could be implemented to the soldier skeleton as well). This would be a dramatic change to gameplay, but we have witnessed another large magnitude alteration in Battlefield 4 via the "headglitch" fix so it is not out of the realm of possibility.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

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### My "Contributions"

Posts: 16

Date of registration
: Nov 5th 2016

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

Saturday, December 17th 2016, 6:55pm

### Quoted from "h0munkulus"

A game should not be balanced around some mathematical concept of balance, but around making the game as enjoyable as possible for as many people as possible.

except that dice wants to make the battlefield series e-sports(hard to believe i know) so they HAVE to do it, then again, the martini is really a special case here, how do you balance via math a gun that shots only one round then reloads?

Yep.

DICE isn't interested in making a party game. They're interested in making a competitive game.
but how does that even relate to the martini-henry nerf?

are you arguing that in a competitive setting the martini-henry would have been a heavily used weapon? What kind of evidence do you have for that? In what kind of gamemode or setting?

If you check tracking websites you are going to be hard pressed to find anyone who has ridiculous infantry stats relying on the martini-henry. there are certainly some great players that have great stats with that rifle but you will find similar if not better examples for all scoped snipers as well and if you want to find any of the ridiculous kill-per-minute, kill-per-game or k/d stats you will find those players using mostly assault or support weapons...

PvF 2017 Champion

Posts: 7,220

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

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Saturday, December 17th 2016, 9:04pm

The Martini-Henry has a 30-80m sweetspot.

This is good enough for relevant fighting such as on flags.

The alternative is the SMLE with a 40-75m sweetspot.

The big difference is that the old Martini would've been able to OHK to any part of the body.

Bigger sweetspot and 1.0x on all body parts vs smaller sweetspot and dependence on bodyshot/headshot.

The two require similar positioning for best results but one of them required less precision.

With the MH, all you have to do is hit the target. You don't have to worry about where you hit them.

People cite that the 1 round mag is a detriment but the fact of the matter is reloading does not matter if the enemies are dead and the Martini had a definite advantage in that department.

Bringing up stat-tracking websites is also worthless.

It's a popularity indicator that is heavily dependent on the information the public has.

If they had known that it was bugged, you'd sure as hell see a spike in its use.

Same thing happened with the M26 DART and G3A3 back in BF3.

The opposite is the MG4 Stubby that people didn't know about, but 200 rounds at 0.99 spread at 800 RPM is definitely overkill.

Heavily used in the entirety of BF1's arsenal? Probably not.

Amongst Scout primaries? Definitely yes.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

### Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it dies™.

Pinkie

Posts: 7,809

Date of registration
: Feb 25th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: italy

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Saturday, December 17th 2016, 9:24pm

i don't think anyone, at least here, is debating that it wasn't overkill when bugged, but in it's fixed form it still is quite underwhelming.
oh, 15 meters more of sweetspot? what a big fucking deal, you lose so much for those 15 meters that it doesn't matter, especially when you only have 15 meters more for a double chance of getting an instakill.
WITH CRAPPY IRONISGHTS.
with the smle you can use the scope and just go straight for the head which is very much doable in those ranges,heck, even the lattey sight and the ironsights are better on the smle for headshots, on the other hand, for the martini henry you lose so many pros for 15 meters more within a distance in which you can one shot enemy in case you aim a bit lower than the head, by error.
"wait? by error? but you should do the opposite!"
should, probably, because when taking in account the arms and how big the chest hitbox is, going for chestshots hoping to either be in the range(which is doable) or a headshot(which is just as unlikely as getting the perfect chestshot) then trying to actively get a sweetspot kill with those shitty stats and sights will just get you killed, most people when trying to get the sweetspot kill will just blindly aim for the upper body, just the torso in the best cases, but never only the chest.

so i say, make the 1.0 multilplier extend to the stomach, arms or both, that woudld make it a more balanced weapon rather than just a mere gimmick, and still not as.... well i wouldn't say op, but it got really close that, as it was before the patch.
"I'm just a loot whore."

### stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody

bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

### Quoted from "CobaltRose"

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100

WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500