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  • "Rampaging Sloth" started this thread

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11

Monday, November 28th 2016, 9:27am

Good suggestions, and thanks for the endorsement of the general idea! No reason the whistles couldn't affect all team mates in range. My initial thought was too narrowly focused on how to get squads to actually work together. The actual effects of the whistles is something that would need a lot of consideration, as they could easily be either useless or too strong. But I think the idea of buffs - of some kind - is one that has a lot to offer this game, and indeed I found it to be very useful on the Imperial Officer in Star Wars Battlefront 2. I'm rather fond of the way special classes were implemented in that game; you had to earn points to be able to use them, but they were also limited in number. Perhaps this is too reminiscent of the "killstreaks" from that other series, though.

A solution to the ease of use/difficulty of finding the spawn beacon would be to make it fairly easily visible, meaning that you can place them strategically, rather than just hidden in a corner. That way the officer has to put it into a place that makes sense. It could also have limited uses and then disappear, like when the person who planted the beacon would use it in earlier games. Not infinite, but give a second try in case your squad makes it to a hard objective and instantly gets a run of bad luck. With the balancing system they've used for weapons (they are extremely dedicated to their niche, generally speaking) it makes attacking very difficult because they have to run through a gauntlet of ranges (snipers at the outset, then into shotgun and smg range on the objective), while defenders can more easily specialize. If you have a sniper and your buddy hides in a corner below with a shotgun, you're fairly safe to work at your useful range, and only a concerted effort by attackers can dislodge you.

I think of artillery and mortars as being somewhat different here. Artillery would blanket a larger area, not with the intent of precision-killing camping players, but instead suppressing and changing the area. While the bombardment comes in, the enemy's ability to shoot precision shots is suppressed (via screen shake and suppression effects). The screen shake and suppression could also affect allies who are in it, which means it's not something you'd call down on your own guys, but on an enemy position to allow you to advance through an otherwise murderous territory. This idea could be tweaked of course. The enemy could even be made aware of the incoming barrage, and choose to risk weathering it (and certainly it COULD kill, but the intention of killing should not be its main purpose), seek cover, or give up the ground. It would also crater the ground, creating more cover over open terrain, and perhaps damage structures. This could certainly be strong (and annoying), but by limiting the number of officers and having only one artillery strike per life (I guess it could have a VERY slow recharge/resupply time) would mean it can't be spammed, but instead used at a good time. For example, while trying to cross the bridges on Amiens, or during the initial push on Scar, or while trying to reach the town on Suez from the canyon area. The slow nature of an artillery strike would also mean that it is more useful against static defense, as opposed to moving attackers or a more active defense.

I, too, feel it should be a specialist class, not something you just pick at loadout necessarily . . . but also not simply a battlefield pickup. Or perhaps at each team's base, two Officer kits spawn that players can pick up? It needs to be slightly more accessible, but also not ubiquitous.

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 9:30am

The artillery and gas don't have to get a ton of kills if they succeed in suppressing and disorganizing an enemy defense or attack. Used properly, this could really help change incredibly difficult assaults in modes like Operations easier (The last hill on Suez, I'm looking at you), or help stop a strong attack.

I suppose the Officer could simply get a Gas variant of the Mortar as one of the gadgets, which the Support does not have access to. This already exists as one of the weapons used by the Armoured Mortar Truck, so it should not be too difficult to implement into the game either.

The other gadget could be the Trench Periscope, since they are basically binoculars that fit with the role of assigning targets and mostly being supportive.

  • "Rampaging Sloth" started this thread

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 9:43am

What about this idea? Only Squad Leaders have the option to spawn as Officers? It's optional, not guaranteed. Due to their sub-optimal main weapons, I don't see them being spammed too much, but this could work to make them more available than Elite classes while also limiting them.

I guess, though, people could all make their own squads, but I would hope due to the team-oriented nature of the kit, that would be unlikely. Also, then it'd make sense that officers are giving objectives (not gameplay relevant, but fitting to the setting).


*Please ignore my stupid jokes in the next part*

They could also have a swagger stick for a melee weapon. Imagine the shame of getting killed with a cane! And instead of being able to sprint they break into a measured walk with a superior comment like "why, a gentleman never lifts his feet so fast he raises dust". And another ability could be to debuff the enemy by snidely commenting on their lack of social status!

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 9:55am

I think Squad Leaders having access to weaker Whistles that apply to just the Squad would be cool.

But keep in mind the game shouldn't be about hugging your Squad Leader's nuts.

Limiting things to just squads reduces teamwork. It doesn't increase it.

Helping 31 teammates is much stronger than 4 squadmates.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Nov 28th 2016, 10:04am)


  • "Rampaging Sloth" started this thread

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 10:18am

The whistles could still help all nearby allies, not just squad-mates; that only squad leaders can spawn as Officers is just an idea to limit their number without making them as rare as Elite Classes.

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 10:38am

Puh I do not know, I like the streamlined class system we got since BC2. Four classes are enough without specializing roles too much. Everybody still got a niche, but works outside of it. I also do not support the idea of buffs, when I get killed or kill I want it to be consistent and comprehensible. If suddenly people run faster or have more armour, or are instantly healed, you name it, this consistency goes to hell. The game is too complex as it is without adding more meta to it.

I think more classes with more specialized roles and abilities, are the hot topic right now, since Overwatch emerged, but I think this is not thepath for Battlefield. I know we will get more elite classes, and I am already rolling my eyes because of it. I want the game to rather stay as it is in that regard.

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 10:48am

@VincentNZ

That is why I said the basic classes need to be aligned with a core gameplay pillar.

The good thing about the 4 classes are that they have a pretty unique identity and their gadgets promote their pillar.

Elites operate outside of that because they have no gadgets. They are also not and should not be aligned with the core pillars.

They are a chance for DICE to include unique mechanics that would otherwise not work.



I also do not think Overwatch is as "specialized" as you think. There are 4 types of heroes.

Each type has several choices of heroes that simply change the delivery of said functionality.

Two Support heroes like Mercy and Lucio can both heal teammates. How they do it and the other tools in their arsenal are simply different.

It is not as if that same thing does not already exist in Battlefield.



We can have AT Revive Medics, Medkit Revive Medics, and Medical Medics.

And they can all use different weapons that have different applications.

I'm pretty sure the number of combinations in Battlefield already exceeds the amount of heroes in Overwatch.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Nov 28th 2016, 11:15am)


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Monday, November 28th 2016, 9:30pm

Quoted

Instead we have this half-assed solution that did nothing to actually solve the original problem.

One of the original problems was how there were players who used planes solely for getting to their favourite sniping spots quickly. That has certainly been resolved.


No.

All that has happened is that players are unable to snipe.

That has not stopped them from using aircraft as taxis.

And such services continue operate today.


Why not add a mechanic which has a timer on aircrafts, tanks, or horses, so when they are destroyed before 20sec (or unoccupied), that vehicle instantly respawns and allows another person to select it via the selection screen at base. Hell, why not add a timer on the spawn screen for vehicles, too?


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Monday, November 28th 2016, 11:05pm

Battlefield has actually been shying away from proliferating the number of classes. BF2 was open season where they had tons by the end of the all of the expansions to the point of ridiculousness and over-specialization.

Since then they've slowly recombined classes based on gadget options and I think that's ultimately a better way to go providing you don't overpower one class by giving it comparatively OP combinations, or too many options.

I think over-specialized or MOBA-style classes that exist primarily to support in the abstract sense of buffs don't fit into the general feel of battlefield.

As to the pilot/tanker classes, they may not have solved the bailing out/battle taxi issues but they do solve one important problem: every person is mandated to use the optimal kit to operate the vehicle when they spawn one/chose to drive one. No more medics/supports running off with tanks half-assed.

I think it's a shame that they spent time designing assets like weapons for the pilot/tanker classes when they practically speaking should almost never be used. It's silly that a fair chunk of the infantry weapons are locked behind a class wall. You should be dying with your tank, and I usually die with my tank and so the occasions where it's worth jumping out in order to try to HE gren the enemy tank, etc are very rare. So you get to toss a couple of HE grens and maybe empty the two barrels of the sawed off and then you die.

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Tuesday, November 29th 2016, 1:13am

Keeping in line with the four class roles, if the current three Elites are (basically) Super Assault, Super Support, and Super Scout, that leaves us without a Super Medic.

Which is exactly where an Officer would come in. A mostly all-round infantry class with semi-auto weapons and teammate buffs. It would trade a super weapon (downgrading to Pistol Carbines) for super team buffs, sort of the opposite of the others, but thematically consistent. Makes sense to me and sounds super fun.
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