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  • "Rampaging Sloth" started this thread

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 6:24am

New Classes?

Are these classes a good idea?

A total of 21 Votes have been submitted.

33%

I think these are unnecessary (7)

19%

I like the Officer Idea (4)

19%

I like Turtles (4)

14%

I like Both (3)

10%

I like the Parachute Trooper Idea (2)

5%

OP is a Stupid CHUD (1)

Okay, I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I've been thinking about it for awhile, and I think there are a few other classes who may be interesting in the game. The classic four-class system works, but the game has already added in via other methods seven other kits (tanker, pilot, cavalryman, and the four elite classes).

These kits should also be available in specific circumstances, perhaps as a special class one can pick like vehicles, but not as pick-up kits.

Officer
Officers use the same weapons as pilots - because officers typically used more handy weapons than the infantry in WW1 (often just pistols, but this is just a slight stretch). They could also have swords of various styles as their melee weapons. As their gear, however, they have BUFFS they can give nearby allies. This class would make sense for squad leaders to be able to pick, or perhaps like the special classes from the classic Star Wars Battlefront - or even just regular class, I dunno. They could have whistles that blow for the attack or retreat either giving a damage, defense, or maybe even speed buff that lasts for a few seconds. Not anything outlandish, but could help make some weapons kill faster under specific circumstances (like hitting the legs or one less shot to kill for weapons close to the threshold). I know that seems extremely gamey, but then - we already have magic mortars that fit in your pocket and can heal death with a syringe, along with magic boxes that recover health. The Officer could also have a single-use ability to call in artillery strikes or even gas attacks on a larger area (so hesitant with gas because of it already being spammed, but it'd make sense), as well as perhaps the missing ability to create a spawn beacon-type thing. Due to having the same weapons available as the pilot classes, they're not the best combatants, but very useful and a good player could definitely use them to great effect for their team, I think. I also think this would give players a chance to use those pilot weapons (I know some people want this).

Parachute Trooper
We usually think of WW2 for these, but the idea was created in WW1 - and like the Pederson Device, which is in the game, the war ended before they were actually tried. This class would only be able to use lighter weapons but the main ability is that they can parachute in almost anywhere. One of their gadgets could be "fake" parachutists to drop down with them (like the false rubber ones from WW2; yeah, really out of time here, but it's a good idea) so enemies who want to pick them off don't know which is real. The fakes could be "spotted", even. This class would become available when a team is spawn-trapped in Conquest or other objective game-mode, allowing them to break free from the trap. There's more thought to be put into that one, for sure.

This has just been itching my mind for awhile. I was surprised from the very beginning there wasn't an officer class, to be honest. I think it could give some more versatility to the game and be introduced in expansions or something.

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 6:38am

The idea of an Officer being the squad leader is similar to the system "Verdun" has I believe. It would definitely be an interesting dynamic, since then only the players that truly want to be the squad leader will take up the role with most either resigning or joining other squads for access to other primary weapons. However, I could only see this working well for Hardcore or an alternate variant of that game mode.

You might be interested in this video from Battle(non)sense, where he gave many suggestions for classes that ended up making it to "Battlefield 1".



By the way, there are only three Elite Classes in total. It is just that the Sentry has two different primary weapons depending on the map and the game mode.

  • "Rampaging Sloth" started this thread

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 6:49am

Thanks for the vid, gonna give that a look!

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 7:38am

I'd play nothing but Officer, that sounds like so much fun! I'd really love to be able to use the Pistol Carbines properly too.

Also, the Officers in campaign do indeed use Carbines.
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Monday, November 28th 2016, 8:05am

Extra classes are meaningless if they are not planned properly.

The Pilot and Tanker classes made it in. The goal was to stop people from bailing out.

Did it really?

No. In fact, one DICE dev reported that playtesters jumped out DELIBERATELY to use Pilot/Tanker weapons because those weapons were not actually as gimped as they were made out to be.

If DICE really wanted to stop people from bailing out, they should just remove the ability to exit the vehicle entirely.

Instead we have this half-assed solution that did nothing to actually solve the original problem.



As for class systems themselves, simply creating a class without thinking about what it does is putting the cart before the horse.

Classes should be aligned with a core gameplay pillar with mechanics designed to match.

MGO3 had a very well-engineered one (seemingly derived from Battlefield no less).



The three core gameplay pillars of that game were Stealth, Combat, and Detection.

As a stealth game, sneaking around was going to be an obvious pillar.

By putting it into PvP, players now also had the role of seeking out players that were sneaking around meaning.

When a seeker found a sneaker, combat would arise.



Thus, MGO3 had three classes that were directly aligned with each of these pillars.

The Infiltrator had access to the strongest stealth and movement options in the game.

The Enforcer had access to the strongest combat options in the game.

The Scout had access to the strongest detection options in the game.

This is a class system that made sense since each one actually highlighted an important gameplay style.

Overwatch does the same thing with its Offensive, Defensive, Support, and Tank heroes.



What are the Officer and Parachutist meant to contribute?

What gameplay pillar do they highlight?
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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Nov 28th 2016, 12:32pm)


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Monday, November 28th 2016, 8:15am

Instead we have this half-assed solution that did nothing to actually solve the original problem.

One of the original problems was how there were players who used planes solely for getting to their favourite sniping spots quickly. That has certainly been resolved.

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 8:22am

Instead we have this half-assed solution that did nothing to actually solve the original problem.

One of the original problems was how there were players who used planes solely for getting to their favourite sniping spots quickly. That has certainly been resolved.


No.

All that has happened is that players are unable to snipe.

That has not stopped them from using aircraft as taxis.

And such services continue operate today.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Monday, November 28th 2016, 8:28am

And such services continue operate today.

What do you mean exactly?

  • "Rampaging Sloth" started this thread

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Monday, November 28th 2016, 8:32am

I think that's a good point to raise, Noctyrne. New classes shouldn't be added just "cuz" or as a bullpoint on a sales sheet.

The officer fulfills several roles, I think that are analogous to the role of officers in real militaries. All of the other classes fulfill a real-life role, but they are not necessarily paper-rock-scissors. Teamwork is the central pillar of Battlefield, and that is the purpose of the Officer. Firstly, by giving it a spawn beacon-type item it becomes a focal point for attacking or defending. This was an important role for the device, and why I always played aggressive Recon in BF3 and 4. It is badly suited to the Scout, though, as it basically just means that it is a personal camping-tool. With the officer having the same class of weapons as the pilot/tanker, he must be close to be effective (though he is not as effective as any other class in their direct combat role). The fact that his whistle abilities would have a radius of effect would encourage squads to stay together and work as a unit - too many times I see someone spawn on me and then turn 180 and run the other way. Players will want those buffs the officer can give, so they will be encouraged to stay within range. Players on both sides could also be aware of these buffs because the whistles could be unique and loud enough to hear - so not breaking immersion with glowing circles or something. The sheer sound of the whistle itself would be a simple way, in-game, to tell your squad to attack NOW NOW, without having to rely on voice chat (not an option for everyone) or chat box, which is slow.

The artillery and gas don't have to get a ton of kills if they succeed in suppressing and disorganizing an enemy defense or attack. Used properly, this could really help change incredibly difficult assaults in modes like Operations easier (The last hill on Suez, I'm looking at you), or help stop a strong attack. Hell, the defense buff just MIGHT even allow an organized team to storm those bunkers (you know the ones). A temporary speed buff could also help at the beginning of a round when seizing key objectives is highly important. The fact that you can pick just two also creates meaningful choices. On the initial attack, speed or defense might be best, until you get close and then offense. But once you have a tenuous hold, clearly the spawn beacon (I know the name doesn't fit, but there are surely other names that can be made up) would be a huge advantage.

I'd think that the reason people are bailing out of the vehicles is because they want to use the novel weapons they're armed with. No, they're not great weapons, but they're unique and people want to experience that. Giving them to a class people can actually pick easily will mean that 1) people don't have to take a vehicle JUST to try them, and 2) when they do have to use them, they will be more familiar with how they work.

Finally, thematically, the lack of any visible officers feels odd in a WW1-themed game. This is a minor point, true, with no effect on gameplay, but I think everyone who thinks of WW1 will at some point envisage that officer standing at the top of the trench yelling "come on, lads!" It isn't even an outlandish idea for Battlefield, as Star Wars Battlefront 2 actually had an Imperial Officer as a special class, who had a damage buff. Some other classes also had AOE buffs for allies.

As for the Parachute Soldier, this is a gameplay class meant to help break the scourge of all FPS MP games; spawn-camping. Giving them lesser-tier weapons means players are giving up some punch to be able to escape an entrapment, but means they also have a CHANCE to break out. There is no pillar here, but a need to confront a gameplay issue that has always plagued the series.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rampaging Sloth" (Nov 28th 2016, 8:40am)


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Monday, November 28th 2016, 8:58am

And such services continue operate today.

What do you mean exactly?


> Spawn in Plane
> Scout Kit replaced with Pilot Kit
> No worries, not the point anyways
> Fly to important flag
> Bail out
> Oh, there was a passenger
> Literally do not care that he crashes and burns
> Capture important flag

Replace "important flag" with any place you want.

Yes, taxis still happen.

Pretending they don't is just willful ignorance.

Firstly, by giving it a spawn beacon-type item it becomes a focal point for attacking or defending.


Fuck the spawn beacon. Probably the biggest source of unengaging, combat avoiding gameplay in previous games.


Spawn Beacons are annoying to deal with because they provide a huge advantage for too little investment.

The enemy team then has to invest quite a bit of effort into hunting it down.

Generally not fun gameplay.

The fact that his whistle abilities would have a radius of effect would encourage squads to stay together and work as a unit - too many times I see someone spawn on me and then turn 180 and run the other way. Players will want those buffs the officer can give, so they will be encouraged to stay within range.


Squads should just be an organization system like Party Systems of other games.

Having the buffs be limited to just the Squad would possibly force squad compositions which would be terrible.

Making the buff teamwide instead of squadwide would be much better for "teamwork" instead of just "squadwork."

The artillery and gas don't have to get a ton of kills if they succeed in suppressing and disorganizing an enemy defense or attack. Used properly, this could really help change incredibly difficult assaults in modes like Operations easier (The last hill on Suez, I'm looking at you), or help stop a strong attack.


What about Support?

They have man-portable artillery.

What makes this different?



What I would like to see for the whistle is for it to reduce incoming Suppression and the maximum level of Suppression, refresh all nearby players' Bayonet Charges, and provide the Bayonet Charge's damage resistance and sprint bonus to people not charging.

Probably even have stronger versions of the Medpack and Ammo Box to go with the class as well.

That would be really cool to see and probably on an Elite Class with a theme of boosting a team's morale.

Would serve as a good addition to all the offensive Elites we have right now.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.