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  • "ChineseToTheBone" started this thread

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Wednesday, November 16th 2016, 2:25pm

Number of Bullets Carried

Just about every primary weapon in the game has the correct bullet capacities now barring the more fictional creations by developers such as the Hellriegel 1915 Factory and the Autoloading 8 .25 Extended. Disregarding those, the overall level of detail has been great, but I think there is a change that could improve on the present system for calculating just how many bullets in total are carried by soldiers for certain weapons fed via magazines.

In my opinion, soldiers should only carry full magazines to start off with rather than having what implies to be loose bullets as well. Think about how peculiar this currently is, as it basically suggests that each magazine comes with an additional bullet that is unrelated to tactical reloads unlike the bullet already chambered within the weapon upon spawning.

Weapons that are fed via clips and those with open bolts would be completely unaffected by my proposed changes, as they never had any issues to begin with. Weapons that would be affected in this case will still carry the same number of magazines as before but with fewer bullets total in order to be more accurately represented. To provide an example, this would mean that the M1911 handgun would come with 28 additional bullets in 4 magazines rather than 32 additional bullets outside of the 8 rounds initially within the weapon.

I of course understand that this would not be a large adjustment by any means, but I believe that updating the total ammunition count this way makes intuitive sense and aligns with how the game has tried to be accurate in terms of bullet capacities.

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Wednesday, November 16th 2016, 3:32pm

Huh, never thought it that way, always went with "you have N full mags", but didn't realize that you actually have "N full mags + N loose bullets". Indeed it would be step closer to realistic details if you only had "N full mags".

I figure changing this wouldn't have tremendous affect either, maybe a very gentle nudge towards support being more usable in terms of resupplies on average.

Then again, since Battlefield skips whole mag issue by only counting number of bullets carried (instead of mags) this could be accounted as part of that 'unrealism'. Personally I am slightly in favor of change like this though, as I think current number of bullets given to player on spawn is just tiny bit too high.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
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  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
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Wednesday, November 16th 2016, 3:52pm

more fictional creations by developers such as the ... Autoloading 8 .25 Extended.
A correction: Remington Model 8s with extended, detachable magazines are very much a real thing. Only problem is that they were still in .35 and only became a thing after the war. Example:

big images







They went by a different moniker though: Remington Model 81 Special Police.
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  • "ChineseToTheBone" started this thread

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Wednesday, November 16th 2016, 4:30pm

Personally I am slightly in favor of change like this though, as I think current number of bullets given to player on spawn is just tiny bit too high.

I want to add that this would also allow the number of bullets in a magazine after a reload in Hardcore to be more consistent, as there will be no loose bullets forming a semi full magazine at the end. Hopefully there will not be any limitations in the "Battlefield 1" codes that would prevent such a decrease in the total ammunition count like this issue that I heard of with reloads being tied with magazine capacities back in "Battlefield 4".



Only problem is that they were still in .35 and only became a thing after the war. Example:

Yeah, I read of someone here on the Symthic forums mention how those Remington semi-automatic rifles with magazines did not exist in the real world until a decade or so after the First World War, which was why I called it fictional in the first place. We are both technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

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Wednesday, November 16th 2016, 7:41pm

Extended magazine on the shotgun also existed after the war from what I heard.

Why isn't anyone raising a stink over that?
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Wednesday, November 16th 2016, 8:02pm

Extended magazine on the shotgun also existed after the war from what I heard.

Why isn't anyone raising a stink over that?

Wow, I didn't even know DICE added that anachronistic variant of the Browning Auto 5 into the game.

I wouldn't even know, considering I get dropped from the servers within two minutes of every damn server I join. . .

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So, that's meow the M1911, Remington Model 8 Police, Browning Auto 5 Police, and the M24 Stielhandgranate.

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Thursday, November 17th 2016, 12:16am

I want to add that this would also allow the number of bullets in a magazine after a reload in Hardcore to be more consistent, as there will be no loose bullets forming a semi full magazine at the end.


Assuming HC works the same in BF1, which I'd assume it does, this actually doesn't happen. I've brought up this point before, about how every spare mag you get comes with a +1 to go with it. From a technical standpoint this is because BF considers, for example "31" to be the mag size, and when you reload from empty, the game takes away one round from your magazine. In a technical, video-game sense it functions in reverse or reality. This is why "number of magazines" includes the +1.

This means that in HC (or Classic) you always have proper full spare mags, as on an empty reload you take 31 rounds from your spare, 30 goes into the gun, and 1 is discarded. This also raises the interesting point that it's impossible to use all of the bullets your HUD says you have. Reload with 1 round left, you lose that 1 but put 31 in. Reload with 0 left, you put 30 in and lose one from spare. Same difference.

Could it be fixed? I have no idea how complex that would be. Should it be fixed? I do think it should, unless of course it's excessively time consuming to figure out.
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  • "ChineseToTheBone" started this thread

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Thursday, November 17th 2016, 1:08am

Why isn't anyone raising a stink over that?

You certainly can if you want. Just like the Hellriegel 1915 Factory and the Autoloading 8 .25 Extended, they either never existed or only appeared later on.



Wow, I didn't even know DICE added that anachronistic variant of the Browning Auto 5 into the game.

Did you mean by the Extended variant of the 12g Automatic shotgun?



So, that's meow the M1911, Remington Model 8 Police, Browning Auto 5 Police, and the M24 Stielhandgranate.

What are inaccurate about the portrayal of the M1911 handgun and the German stick grenade?



Could it be fixed? I have no idea how complex that would be.

My worry was that the total ammunition count was completely tied to the bullet capacity of the gun with no way of changing it.

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Thursday, November 17th 2016, 1:32am

My worry was that the total ammunition count was completely tied to the bullet capacity of the gun with no way of changing it.


It sort of is. You set "spare magazines" as a number of mags (for example 4), and it gives the gun that much ammo spare. To remove the +1 added with each mag I believe the system would have to be reworked so instead of the gun holding 31 and losing a round for an empty reload, it holds 30 and gains one for a tactical reload. This would likely also have you spawn with 30.

This leads us to another interesting thing that should be fixed: Being able to "double reload", meaning do a tactical reload right after an empty one to get the +1 back. Not only is this silly, but it's extremely detrimental in Classic and especially HC (as in the latter you can't see ammo count). Games have definitely done both systems this way, notably Crysis. You spawn without +1, gain +1 for tac reloads, and cannot tac reload with a one-short ammo count.

I'd love to see both fixed.
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Thursday, November 17th 2016, 7:06am

Did you mean by the Extended variant of the 12g Automatic shotgun?

Si.

What are inaccurate about the portrayal of the M1911 handgun and the German stick grenade?

The featured "M1911" is really a hybrid of the period-correct M1911 and the post-war M1911A1. It's pretty discrete, and thus it's quite difficult for the 99.9% to notice the errors.

As for the M24 Stielhandgranate? Well, that would have been developed in 1924. During WW1, you would have seen the Model 15, 16, or 17 Stielhandgranate. The first is most definable by its spoon while the latter two typically have a belt clip on them. This means the heavy anti-tank grenade featured in the game is also anachronistic, seeing it's a bundle of M24s rather than one of the period-correct grenades.