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  • "Hau_ruck" started this thread

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Monday, November 7th 2016, 8:37am

Why doesn't DICE understand how stationary weapons need to work?

Now, everyone may be tired of me carrying on about this, but DICE really doesn't know what the hell they are doing when it comes to this class of weapons. They never have, and it looks like they never will. The idea of a stationary weapon is that you give up your ability to move or choose where you fire from, but you gain a significant boost in firepower in order to lock down a choke point or venue of attack and put out more damage than you normally could (much like you can with tanks). They very much nailed this idea with the field gun. It has solid protection from the front, but can be flanked by skilled players, and offers all classes a way of fighting tanks (or just blowing up infantry).

Unfortunately nobody seems to have told DICE this how HMGs need to work. While the stationary MG with a shield is arguably better than most infantry weapons, the version without a shield is basically useless. In a game where medic and scout weapons have perfect accuracy and, in the case of the scout, can one hit kill out to any range, a stationary machinegun needs to far surpass infantry weapons in order to be worth the risk of using it. This is not the case in BF1.

In order for the non-shielded HMGs to be worth using, they would need to be capable of some serious damage output. The easiest way to do this would be to exchange them for the aircraft rear machinegun. This is a weapon of incredible firepower, with good velocity, overheat limit and damage output. Why are unshielded Mgs not like this? It would make them worth the exposure, and would fit well with the WW1 setting. This is such an obvious solution to the "nobody uses HMGs" problem that I don't know why DICE keeps making the same mistake. Perhaps the light jeeps could receive this weapon too, to help them act as a force multiplier instead of an inferior horse.

Also, why can't the shielded MGs turn around in all directions? Does anyone seriously think they would be OP if this were the case? The field gun already seems to suffer from a bizarre control glitch when attempting to turn all the way around, as the left/ right controls weirdly invert as you rotate the gun. Even with this glitch though, reversed field guns can do serious damage to defenders in some places. HMGs could do the same if DICE would just give them a chance.

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Monday, November 7th 2016, 8:44am

Only thing i know, is that the hmg at F is better than the AA for taking out the zeppelin.

I 've been able and seen the hmg inside b being put to good use(scar)

At least the stztionaries positiong most times is better than bf3 and bf4...
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Monday, November 7th 2016, 8:48am

Pretty sure unshielded HMG is able to fire for a really long time without overheating.

At least, I haven't ever had it overheat in my experience.
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  • "Hau_ruck" started this thread

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Monday, November 7th 2016, 9:12am

Pretty sure unshielded HMG is able to fire for a really long time without overheating.

At least, I haven't ever had it overheat in my experience.


The shielded one can do this too. It is definitely a nice feature, but I feel it is misplaced on a stationary weapon. Since these weapons can't rotate properly, and any type of cover blocks their line of sight completely, what they really need is short bursts of high TTK damage, MG42 style. Slow but consistent fire is useless when enemies can just move cover to cover and the gun damages too slowly to get a kill. I'd rather a quick overheat but high damage output. That way enemies would need to think twice before dashing over open ground in front of an HMG.

The positioning is definitely much better in this game, and I think the shielded MGs at least play a role. But the unshielded ones are too vulnerable. This is why I think the aircraft MG would be better suited to the role. Increase the heat build up, but make the weapon shred anyone who gets in its way. Make it a high risk/ high reward weapon, not a high risk/ ok reward (under certain circumstances) weapon.

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Monday, November 7th 2016, 9:28am

The positioning is definitely much better in this game, and I think the shielded MGs at least play a role. But the unshielded ones are too vulnerable. This is why I think the aircraft MG would be better suited to the role. Increase the heat build up, but make the weapon shred anyone who gets in its way. Make it a high risk/ high reward weapon, not a high risk/ ok reward (under certain circumstances) weapon.

What are roughly the amount of damage per bullet for each of these three variations of the Heavy Machine Gun? (Shielded, unshielded, and rear plane that is.)

Also, do they also happen to have a high first shot spread increase followed by negative spread like light machine guns?

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Monday, November 7th 2016, 10:02am

The positioning is definitely much better in this game, and I think the shielded MGs at least play a role. But the unshielded ones are too vulnerable. This is why I think the aircraft MG would be better suited to the role. Increase the heat build up, but make the weapon shred anyone who gets in its way. Make it a high risk/ high reward weapon, not a high risk/ ok reward (under certain circumstances) weapon.

What are roughly the amount of damage per bullet for each of these three variations of the Heavy Machine Gun? (Shielded, unshielded, and rear plane that is.)

Also, do they also happen to have a high first shot spread increase followed by negative spread like light machine guns?


I think the shielded and unshielded variants are the same. I think the open jeeps also share this gun. The closed armoured cars definitely overheat much faster unfortunately. The aircraft Mg, from what I can tell does 22 damage to ground infantry even from way up in the sky, can fire for ages and has high enough velocity to make hitting aircraft fairly easy. Considering the fact that I have managed to kill infantry on the ground with the plane HMG even while moving at high speed indicates that it could serve well as an unshielded, risky-but-powerful HMG.

All that needs to happen is the shielded HMG needs 360 degree movement and the unshielded and jeep HMG needs to be switched to the plane variant to make it worthwhile. if a sniper wants to get his headshot, he should have to risk getting in the way of an extremely lethal machinegun.

It has always frustrated me the way DICE responds so quickly to balance issues regarding infantry weapons, and yet even though they can see that nobody is using an entire class of weapons (stationary and open jeep MGs), they never seem to do anything about it. I feel bad for the HMG programmer.

If a good player is more inclined to fire his infantry weapon while standing next to or behind an HMG, this is a problem, which needs to be solved. The solution is obvious.

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Monday, November 7th 2016, 10:08am

So those Heavy Machine Gun stationary weapons have minimum damages at range lower than 22 damage per body shot?

It does sound like they should be improved in that case to all be on the same level, including those within armoured vehicles.

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Monday, November 7th 2016, 10:20am

At least stationary weapons are actually viable once again. They were relegated to utter uselessness due to poor placement, lack of cover and poor damage output. They were just sniper bait and far too easy to hit with vehicle counter fire in BF3/BF4.

The field gun is great. It's fairly matched vs tanks - it doesn't crush them, and it's not a guaranteed death sentence to be manning one in a two way shooting match with armor.

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Monday, November 7th 2016, 10:27am

So those Heavy Machine Gun stationary weapons have minimum damages at range lower than 22 damage per body shot?

It does sound like they should be improved in that case to all be on the same level, including those within armoured vehicles.


I'm honestly not sure. I think the main problems have more to do with low velocity, low ROF and the reverse spread mechanic not being compatible with a weapon that needs to kill quickly, before enemies have time to move to cover. The main difference between the stationary MGs and the aircraft MGs seems to be rate of fire and muzzle velocity. The aircraft HMGs seem to be like the transport heli miniguns from BF4, which were given high damage to compensate for the fact that they were usually fired from a moving vehicle and would therefore miss quite a bit. When used while the heli was landed they shredded everything. I am really not sure who told DICE's programmers that stationary MGs needed to be only marginally better than normal weapons. This is a stupid idea.

PS: @NoctyrneSAGA , you really weren't exaggerating about the HMG's effectiveness against the airship. I was just defending in operations on SCAR and absolutely murdered their airship with one. I really think it does out damage the AA gun too.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Hau_ruck" (Nov 7th 2016, 11:31am)


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Monday, November 7th 2016, 12:05pm

I honestly cannot tell if there is negative spread for the Heavy Machine Gun.

Are the tracer fire you see flying out of the barrel an accurate representation visually of the actual outgoing bullets?