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81

Wednesday, November 30th 2016, 6:20am

Just to provide a rebuttal, there are in fact some people who use custom mouse and keyboard setups that are compatible with their consoles. In fact, I heard rumours that half of the top players for "Overwatch" on consoles use them to gain an advantage. If there are similar situations for "Battlefield 1", then aim assist for users of controllers will certainly narrow that gap in inherent capabilities.



It makes your shot awkward instead of fluid.

So how about turning it off for this game? Would that not help with your case?

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Wednesday, November 30th 2016, 7:02am

Just to provide a rebuttal, there are in fact some people who use custom mouse and keyboard setups that are compatible with their consoles. In fact, I heard rumours that half of the top players for "Overwatch" on consoles use them to gain an advantage. If there are similar situations for "Battlefield 1", then aim assist for users of controllers will certainly narrow that gap in inherent capabilities.


While that's true, it's also not something one should balance/design around. Adding AA for millions of players just to offset a potential advantage by an insignificantly tiny amount of M+K players would be overkill in the extreme.
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Wednesday, November 30th 2016, 1:25pm


I've never understood how this is logical. If we were talking about some using M+K and others using controllers, sure, as a way to even the playing field that makes sense; whether that should be done or not is a different discussion, but it does make sense. But that's not the case. Everyone is using controllers. Everyone is on an even playing field. There's no reason at all to have aim assist.

This argument is like, if there was a hypothetical new device that was even better than M+K, but it couldn't be used on PC, PC players would now need aim assist. Because there's something better out there, even though none of them use it. That's... what?



Money is the reason. A skill curve is bad for business. Less dexterity with the sticks and no aim assist would have console players putting the game down rather quickly. The aim assist makes it easier for the newcomers and casual players to get more immediate gratification out of the game. It allows the game to play faster, have more action for the console.



So how about turning it off for this game? Would that not help with your case?
Yeah, that's what I've pretty much been doing for a while. It got to be too much of a hassle. The only reason it still bothers me is because I've never seen it to this extent in a console FPS.

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Saturday, December 3rd 2016, 3:44pm

Money is the reason. A skill curve is bad for business. Less dexterity with the sticks and no aim assist would have console players putting the game down rather quickly. The aim assist makes it easier for the newcomers and casual players to get more immediate gratification out of the game. It allows the game to play faster, have more action for the console.

On the contrary.

A skill curve and depth is very good for business. Gives the player a reason to come back for more. Improvement is like the ultimate goal in a MP game.

What isn't good is when the "skill" curve can only be climbed through improving muscle memory. That isn't particularly engaging or player influenced (takes no conscious effort). Not being able to execute your plans in a game leads to a feeling of lack of mastery, and, as you say, makes people put down the game. DICE knows this, hence aim assist.

Aim assist doesn't take away depth, and makes the game more accessible (=more players). I see no downsides.


Everyone is using controllers. Everyone is on an even playing field. There's no reason at all to have aim assist.

A game of hockey where all the sticks are really shitty and inaccurate is also fair, but is it fun?

For those who are adept with these shitty sticks, sure, but that is really hard, and they are going to be few. Consider that you might be more talented than average with a controller BU.


The purpose of free aim in my eyes is to be allowed to freely prioritize targets, compensate for drop, look around etc. It's not there to create a click-on-pixels contest. I'm fine with AA infringing upon the latter to make the former more pleasant.

A requirement of- or reliance on high technical skills just delays/takes away enjoyment of the game (exception being if you are very good at that sort of things). To illustrate, in any Halo game (all have a lot of assists) I can jump in and do well/have fun (played Halo 5 for like the third time a while ago; went on something like a 15 kill streak). Meanwhile, playing Rainbow Six Siege, jumping in after not playing for a long time/having played something else makes me perform really poorly, as I will fuck up engagements, particularly at range, due to poor aim, even if I have the positional advantage.

In fact, I think this might be one of the reasons Halo got so popular. In Halo, you use your head to win; in Rainbow six, the thumbs.*

*It's still a really deep game, the depth is just less accessible.


Though, I don't like the magnetic part of the rotational assist. That does mess with target prioritization, and can even reveal people through some cover. When I played Bf4 a lot, I turned off the rotational assist, as that also made it easier to aim for the head. Nowadays, I use both assists, as playing different games really screws with my muscle memory.

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Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

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When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.


DICE pls

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting suggestions

Posts I should finish sometime:
Squad priority vehicle system (and anti stealing suggestion)
Scoring system flaws (and concept)
Battlefield definition
New helicopter idea
Suppression rework
Flow, immersion and fun in battlefield
Specializations: ideas and system rework
Gadget reworks and ideas
Why limited infinite ammo would be awesome
Other bitesize ideas



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85

Saturday, December 3rd 2016, 9:14pm

The purpose of free aim in my eyes is to be allowed to freely prioritize targets, compensate for drop, look around etc. It's not there to create a click-on-pixels contest. I'm fine with AA infringing upon the latter to make the former more pleasant.

A requirement of- or reliance on high technical skills just delays/takes away enjoyment of the game (exception being if you are very good at that sort of things). To illustrate, in any Halo game (all have a lot of assists) I can jump in and do well/have fun (played Halo 5 for like the third time a while ago; went on something like a 15 kill streak). Meanwhile, playing Rainbow Six Siege, jumping in after not playing for a long time/having played something else makes me perform really poorly, as I will fuck up engagements, particularly at range, due to poor aim, even if I have the positional advantage.

In fact, I think this might be one of the reasons Halo got so popular. In Halo, you use your head to win; in Rainbow six, the thumbs.*

*It's still a really deep game, the depth is just less accessible.


Though, I don't like the magnetic part of the rotational assist. That does mess with target prioritization, and can even reveal people through some cover. When I played Bf4 a lot, I turned off the rotational assist, as that also made it easier to aim for the head. Nowadays, I use both assists, as playing different games really screws with my muscle memory.


The funny thing is I actually agree with you entirely, with regards to what I like the focus to me on in games. I don't mind slowdown AA really, it's the snap that's a bit silly. As a whole though, I do prefer games that are more about thinking rather than doing, and Halo is my other main shooter series. ^^
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Monday, December 5th 2016, 1:23pm


On the contrary.

A skill curve and depth is very good for business. Gives the player a reason to come back for more. Improvement is like the ultimate goal in a MP game.

What isn't good is when the "skill" curve can only be climbed through improving muscle memory. That isn't particularly engaging or player influenced (takes no conscious effort). Not being able to execute your plans in a game leads to a feeling of lack of mastery, and, as you say, makes people put down the game. DICE knows this, hence aim assist.

Aim assist doesn't take away depth, and makes the game more accessible (=more players). I see no downsides.



That's a fair opinion, and I should qualify my statement. The steeper the skill curve, the worse it is for business. Aim assist almost has to be incorporated for console shooters, you simply can't increase the pace of the game without it. Aim assist by itself does not necessarily take away from the depth of the game, but pushing the boundaries towards making the game more accommodating for newer/less experienced players begins to. What I'm describing here is the "flattening" of the skill curve in order to allow these players to experience "success" more easily.



As an example, I choose to reference the Call of Duty franchise. On the PC, there is still an incredibly rich competitive aspect located in the ProMod settings. However, these settings are based on the Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare game. As far as console play goes, that was probably also the last great competitive title in the series, or so I would argue. They've continued to cheapen the experience, lowering the higher tiers of gameplay.

A more accessible game may be better for business, but it does not directly translate to a better game. Therein lies the issue.

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Monday, December 5th 2016, 1:35pm

Lowering the skill floor does not automatically lower the skill ceiling.

Good games will be easy to pick up (low skill floor) but have a lot of depth for people to master (high skill ceiling).

This is so that you have a large amount of people willing to try the game while also providing something for core players to master.

And optimally, many of the new players can appreciate what they're starting off with and choose to stay.



Making a game that has a high skill floor and ceiling will amount to closing off anyone who is not a zealous fan of your gameplay at first sight.

More than one game has suffered from this.
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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Monday, December 5th 2016, 9:55pm

As a whole though, I do prefer games that are more about thinking rather than doing, and Halo is my other main shooter series.

I tried a bit of "Halo 5: Forge" not long ago and noticed that the amount of recoil for guns is surprisingly low compared to first person shooters such as "Battlefield 1" for example. Why do you feel that is and is there spread for those weapons?



Good games will be easy to pick up (low skill floor) but have a lot of depth for people to master (high skill ceiling).

Would you say that is the case with "Battlefield 1" currently then?

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Tuesday, December 6th 2016, 1:13am

As a whole though, I do prefer games that are more about thinking rather than doing, and Halo is my other main shooter series.

I tried a bit of "Halo 5: Forge" not long ago and noticed that the amount of recoil for guns is surprisingly low compared to first person shooters such as "Battlefield 1" for example. Why do you feel that is and is there spread for those weapons?


Because Halo is an arena shooter, very different at its core from "standard" shooters like BF, CoD, and most others. Halo doesn't really have ADS either, it's basically a visual-only effect with a little zoom; you weapon will perform nearly the same or exactly the same ADS or not, and there's not ADS move speed penalty, as another example.
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