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Fighter planes

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Posts: 3,100

Date of registration
: Apr 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Monday, October 24th 2016, 1:46am

Fighter planes

Sooo.... fighter planes. More specifically the default variant and it's gun. Is it really supposed to do this little damage?

As it stands it is, IMO, worse against air targets than all other planes (if we include gunners). If you want to take down enemy air you are currently better off taking any other plane type and using the gunner to take down enemy planes. And you don't even need a gunner, even the standard attack plane does a decent job and it's useful against ground targets as well.

The vanilla fighter has pathetic damage output, while doing runs on enemy planes I'm probably more scared of their gunners than what they probably are scared of me. Sure, once you unlock the rocket variant you can start dealing damage to bombers but that doesn't really alleviate the vanilla variants' overall uselessness. There is nothing that it's actually good at, except dueling with other fighters, but then were suddenly back to BF4-style useless stealth jet duels.

Too me the vanilla fighter feels like a trap choice, it isn't really good at anything and you just end up spending a bunch of time annoying enemy planes but never amounting to anything. Not unlike a recon sitting in the uncap you are nearly unkillable and very annoying (due to best mobility and quick repair), but ultimately you are just wasting a slot on the server/wasting a vehicle that could be an attack plane/bomber.

TL;DR: The vanilla fighter is a trap choice, you would be better off flying any other plane or with your boots on the ground.

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What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

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Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "C0llis" (Oct 24th 2016, 2:48am)

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Posts: 7,082

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

Monday, October 24th 2016, 1:49am

Reminds me of BF4 Stealth Jets on release.

Something in the neighborhood of like 1-2 damage per second against aircraft.
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Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it dies™.

Posts: 13

Date of registration
: May 30th 2016

Platform: PS4

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

Monday, October 24th 2016, 6:54am

I agree, to some extent. However, I do feel like there is more benefit to dogfighter variant than we initially can experience.

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Posts: 486

Date of registration
: Apr 2nd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

Monday, October 24th 2016, 7:34pm

Quoted from "C0llis"

Sure, once you unlock the rocket variant you can start dealing damage to bombers but that doesn't really alleviate the vanilla variants' overall uselessness.

Yeah the rocket variant is honestly what I'm going to call as "The Meta Choice." It's crazy how much those rockets deal against other aircraft, you can nigh one shot other aircraft with 2-4 rockets. In addition the rockets can be used against SAA, which you're going to want to do against all SAA on the map, especially the ones in your team's territory because otherwise, they'll do your job better than you.

However the bomber killer variant is available for what like $250 war bonds right from the start? It's not like you have to jump through hurdles trying to level up the fighter class to actually use the effective load out. In addition pilot class is generic to bomber, attack plane, and fighter, so you don't have to choose the fighter to level up that class. In fact most people should avoid the fighter altogether, unless the enemy aircraft are power overwhelming, and even then, you only need 1 fighter. The attack plane with tank hunter and a gunner is just all around more versatile, and bombers are mini AC-130s. Posts: 55 Date of registration : Aug 15th 2016 Platform: PC Battlelog: Reputation modifier: 1 Tuesday, October 25th 2016, 3:59am Quoted from "Gauss H2K" Quoted from "C0llis" Sure, once you unlock the rocket variant you can start dealing damage to bombers but that doesn't really alleviate the vanilla variants' overall uselessness. Yeah the rocket variant is honestly what I'm going to call as "The Meta Choice." It's crazy how much those rockets deal against other aircraft, you can nigh one shot other aircraft with 2-4 rockets. In addition the rockets can be used against SAA, which you're going to want to do against all SAA on the map, especially the ones in your team's territory because otherwise, they'll do your job better than you. However the bomber killer variant is available for what like$250 war bonds right from the start? It's not like you have to jump through hurdles trying to level up the fighter class to actually use the effective load out.

In addition pilot class is generic to bomber, attack plane, and fighter, so you don't have to choose the fighter to level up that class.

In fact most people should avoid the fighter altogether, unless the enemy aircraft are power overwhelming, and even then, you only need 1 fighter. The attack plane with tank hunter and a gunner is just all around more versatile, and bombers are mini AC-130s.

I'd argue that the "Meta Choices" in the game are too early to say. We should wait until a month or longer has passed to see what works, what doesn't work and what needs re-balancing. I mean isn't Meta-Game decided when Pro/ESL/Competitive players discover the setups that work most of the time if not all of the time(bugs, macros, weapons, attachments if any in BF1, vehicles and/or elite classes; though if Server Admin is at returning thing, these would be banned) then again and once again, the spectator camera, the battle recorder(like with 3, 4, and Hardline) weren't there at the launch -- at a minimum if BF1 is going to have "Competitive" savvy for itself, those needs to be a standard. Arguing that "EA needs money" or "Dev's need money for the game" just is not believable to me. Only sounds like they wish to take steps backwards not forwards.

For a form of reference: https://youtu.be/N3NQ6_9BCc8?t=4225

Salt Miner

Posts: 3,544

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

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Tuesday, October 25th 2016, 4:07am

I don't have enough info or playtime in them to have a solid opinion yet, but I am wondering why I'd use the standard dogfighter over the version with those downward-firing spikes.
Who Enjoys, Wins

Posts: 486

Date of registration
: Apr 2nd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

Tuesday, October 25th 2016, 5:11am

Quoted from "FriezaReturns"

I'd argue that the "Meta Choices" in the game are too early to say.

I've played for nearly a week, with decent experience on flying vehicles across several battlefields.

In BF4 the most versatile load out for stealth jets was guided missiles+20mm cannon.

In BF1 after playing around with all the different planes, and their load outs, I can reasonably guess what will probably be the most effective, and explain why it will be.

Why is the bomber killer fighter leaps above the rest? Lets compare it on 3 different fronts, Air to Air, Air vs Tank, and Air vs Infantry.

Versus Air it's supreme. The rockets absolutely destroy any other air vehicle. 2-3 rockets plus like a .2-.5s burst from the main guns one shots an attack plane, and a bomber can't take that much more. Compared to dog fighter and trench fighter, it wins completely.

Versus Tanks it's ok. ~11 damage for all 6 rockets on a tank means you're not going to solo kill tanks a la BF3, but at least you can contribute to taking down enemy armor. Compared to dogfighter it annihilates it; whereas the trench fighter I believe does comparable damage so it's a wash between the 2.

Versus Infantry it's ok. Rocket strafing infantry can be a little bit tricky, but it will kill full health infantry on a pass. Easier with rockets than dog fighter's guns so it has the edge. Whilst the trench fighter is better versus groups of infantry since it has better splash damage.

However it's been in my experience that fighter planes are nigh only really good at taking out other aerial targets given their superior turn radii, and overall speed combined with the lack of bombs like bomber and attack plane. In that case equipping the bomber killer load out allows you to focus on this objective, and on certain maps with the zeppelin behemoth, it allows you to fulfill your niche whilst contributing a great bit to your team.

If you want to be versatile engaging both ground and air targets, the tank hunter load out for the attack plane is perfect because you have superior ground target destruction with a rear gunner to help you battle other aircraft. The best of both worlds.

However a good bomber pilot can and will affect the ground battle the most because it has the power to destroy an area with bombs plus a front gunner, and a competent rear gunner will shred any aircraft that thinks it can get a cheeky easy triple kill. It's equivalent to a player controlled AC-130 from the modern BF installments.

Bomber killer becomes all the more important against good bombers, because it's the only way to burst that plane down before the rear gunner/front gunner shreds you a new one.

Honestly the fighter is the only aircraft that seemingly has an obvious meta choice since both the attack plane, and bomber have great situational choices when it comes to the load out.

Fixing it should be simple enough:
Give Dogfighter a light machine gun in similar vein to the 20mm from BF4, and the rockets from the bomber killer load out.
Rename Bomber killer into tank fighter. Give it a heavy cannon mg with no splash, like the 30mm from BF4, and give it 2 light bombs.
Give trench fighter a splash mg kinda like the 25mm from BF4, and let it keep it's current secondary.

This should give the fighter pilot a situational load out that allows them to pick and choose how they want to impact the game. Choosing the wrong load out like bomber killer into heavy air traffic should make the fighter pilot feel like they brought a hammer to fix a screw.

Posts: 1,535

Date of registration
: Sep 7th 2016

Platform: PC

Location: Toronto

Battlelog:

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Tuesday, October 25th 2016, 7:00am

Is there a way to fly in the multiplayer like in the campaign? That is probably the best I can manage.

Pinkie

Posts: 7,808

Date of registration
: Feb 25th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: italy

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

Tuesday, October 25th 2016, 7:04am

Quoted from "ChineseToTheBone"

Is there a way to fly in the multiplayer like in the campaign? That is probably the best I can manage.

you really like that? i mean, it's not bad with a controller(when it doesn't glitch, which is everytime if you use custom controls) but with a mouse it's terrible, either not accurate enough(using binary input) or too slow(using mouse)

i prefer much more the multiplayer system, roll and pitch on splitfish analog(wasd) and pitch and yaw on mouse.
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stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody

bf4
on 13/05/2016
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rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
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bf3
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*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

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Posts: 171

Date of registration
: Jan 8th 2016

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

Tuesday, October 25th 2016, 7:05am

Apart from the teleportation bug and bad hit reg. in general, I think the attack planes are fine, perhaps too fine.. Even a mediocre pilot like me can score 30+ kills in a round in air (default kit), provided enemy team doesn't focus on hunting me down too heavily. However, if they do focus heavily, I can just forget about the whole flying thing completely. AA guns will be lighting up the sky, random rangers will shoot at me with pistols, sniper rifles, machine guns and what not. And I like that! Attack plane should be a situational death from above. The default kit is extremely deadly against infantry and I think this is good place for possible adjustment. I often annihilate 3-4 infantry in one pass, if they are within (an imaginary) 50 meter circle. How crazy is that? Not to mention my gunner friend who keeps knocking the fighters out before I even see them, while laughing maniacally.

As for the fighter, it clearly feels inferior in it's default iteration. True, it has amazing maneuverability, but the guns just lack any sort of kick. Perhaps i should try the bomber hunter kit, like Gauss is suggesting, it is really tempting to put that kind of agility to good use. And bombers are an often occurrence in every game I played.