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31

Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 12:10pm

Don't be annoyed by feedback, OP. I'm just glad this topic is getting a lot of discussion.



minDamage of 13.5 is worst in class, but that is not a problem since it is available to all classes. Make it too good and all the other class specifics would probably be dropped in favor of a universally good option. Therefore, it has to be intentionally undertuned to promote diversity. As for why the Bulldog also shares this minDamage, note that it has the best fire rate of the revolvers. The Bulldog is therefore a very specialized CQB firearm.

Well, the M1911 is a sidearm that can be equipped by all classes and it by no means is a bad option.

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32

Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 12:16pm

Well, the M1911 is a sidearm that can be equipped by all classes and it by no means is a bad option.


It loses to Revolvers in CQB, it loses to the Mars for "ranged" combat, nor is its fire rate the best.

As marbleduck already mentioned, it's really only good within 10m but even then Revolvers handily beat it there.

Not to mention in terms of pure TTK, the M1911 is consistently in the bottom half of the secondaries.
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Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 12:20pm

As marbleduck already mentioned, it's really only good within 10m but even then Revolvers handily beat it there.

Out of curiosity, how are players here generally using pistols?

Do most of you not pull it out in a desperate situation to finish off a wounded opponent after running out of rounds for your primary weapon?

This post by "potetr" (Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 12:29pm) has been deleted by the author himself (Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 1:16pm) with the following reason: brainfart

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35

Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 1:13pm

Can you expand on this? Has it changed from Bf4?
I think, that he mentioned that the vertical recoil, no matter how heavy it is, still can be compensated, so as soon as you adopt to it - you can be very accurate even with AEK-971+HBar. I never used Angled Grip on any weapon in BF4, because, after about 10-15 minutes, you'll forget about any vertical recoil via thing called "muscle memory". And gun with very big verical recoil but low horisontal is always better than low verical but high horizontal, especially because target always taller than wider.

And this postulate is general to most of PC First-Person Shooters, so it stands same for BF4 or BF1.


It loses to Revolvers in CQB, it loses to the Mars for "ranged" combat, nor is its fire rate the best.

As marbleduck already mentioned, it's really only good within 10m but even then Revolvers handily beat it there.

Not to mention in terms of pure TTK, the M1911 is consistently in the bottom half of the secondaries.
I have to disagree with you: M1911 seems to be a versatile "jack of all trades - master of nothing" sidearm - fast reload, good ammo capacity, 3-hit-kill close, still good firerate. Yeah, damage at longer ranges is same with some other sidearms, but higher than other some and high recoil for balance reasons, but more vertical than horizontal. Weapon is definetely not noob-friendly but definetely has its role in BF1.


BTW: mortars cooldown should be tweaked - 15-16 seconds is way too fast, when defending in operations or rush gamemode you can literally play "mortar-only". 60 seconds may be too much, but 30-45 seconds seems to be what is really needs.

P.S. sorry for this amount of commas - I'm using russian-style punctuation(TL: DR sorry for my bad english =))
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "kazei009" (Oct 23rd 2016, 1:44pm)


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36

Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 1:16pm

Can you expand on this? Has it changed from Bf4?
I think, that he mentioned that the vertical recoil, no matter how heavy it is, still can be compensated, so as soon as you adopt to it - you can be very accurate even with AEK-971+HBar. I never used Angled Grip on any weapon in BF4, because, after about 10-15 minutes, you'll forget about any vertical recoil via thing called "muscle memory". And gun with very big verical recoil but low horisontal is always better than low verical but high horisontal, especially because target always taller than wider.

And this postulate is general to most of PC First-Person Shooters, so it stands same for BF4 or BF1.

P.S. sorry for this amount of commas - I'm using russian-style punctuation(TL:DR sorry for my bad english =))

Ooops, my brain read marble"s "Vrec" as Horizontal recoil. Thanks.

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When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
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37

Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 1:20pm

I never used Angled Grip on any weapon in BF4, because, after about 10-15 minutes, you'll forget about any vertical recoil via thing called "muscle memory".

I agree with you on everything else, but one cannot compensate for the higher first shot recoil though since that is of a completed different value than the consistent recoil of those follow-up shots. This is where the Angled Grip comes in handy for players, as it decreases that much higher vertical recoil received from the very first shot out of a burst.

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38

Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 1:28pm

I agree with you on everything else, but one cannot compensate for the higher first shot recoil though since that is of a completed different value than the consistent recoil of those follow-up shots.

Technically, you can learn to compensate for non-linear recoil. However, it takes such a degree of time and effort to learn that it's basically not worth it to do so.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

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Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

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In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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39

Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 1:31pm

sorry noctyrne, but i still see no point in the no.3, and i'm not colers, is it decent at range? no, obviously. is it decent in close range? no, it has a mere 149rpm, even iif you spam fire it the m1911 will still be way better, yes, even with the terrible spread, does it have a decent reload? arguable, but would it matter anyway when it sucks at almost everything?
the no.3 it's a gimmick, if you want to make it useful, give it a one shot headshot at pre-dropoff range, because with those shit stats it is pretty much useless, it's just a style gun as much as the snub was in hardline, just in th eopposite way.
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rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
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general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
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Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

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40

Sunday, October 23rd 2016, 1:43pm

I agree with you on everything else, but one cannot compensate for the higher first shot recoil though since that is of a completed different value than the consistent recoil of those follow-up shots. This is where the Angled Grip comes in handy for players, as it decreases that much higher vertical recoil received from the very first shot out of a burst.
Well, first shot vertical recoil can be compensated, because it's always the same value. Decreasing first shot horizontal recoil - yeah, that's another story, especially on bullpup weapons. But, you know, stubby grip is so damn powerful attachment in BF4. About burst-fire weapons - yes, I've completely forgot about them(I quit playing BF4 before AN-94 comes in, and don't like M16A4 or M4A1 in BF4 at all).
TL: DR if you can compensate verical FS recoil and Vrec - Angled isn't worth using.

sorry noctyrne, but i still see no point in the no.3, and i'm not colers, is it decent at range? no, obviously. is it decent in close range? no, it has a mere 149rpm, even iif you spam fire it the m1911 will still be way better, yes, even with the terrible spread, does it have a decent reload? arguable, but would it matter anyway when it sucks at almost everything?
the no.3 it's a gimmick, if you want to make it useful, give it a one shot headshot at pre-dropoff range, because with those shit stats it is pretty much useless, it's just a style gun as much as the snub was in hardline, just in th eopposite way.


Maybe it is some kind of class balance, because you can't equip Wembley-Scott Auto Revolver on Assault class and have to use No.3 as revolver(or other painfully long reload ones). But I don't get it - assault's main role is "CQB devastator", so that garbage-firerate No.3 would be the last weapon that I choose as sidearm for assault class.
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "kazei009" (Oct 23rd 2016, 1:54pm)