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21

Thursday, July 14th 2016, 11:48pm

Mind explaining how late BF4 Suppression is irrelevant?
I mean...maybe it isn't, but lets just say I haven't felt it affect my performance whatsoever. I feel I can return fire accurately through max suppression with a DMR, sniper rifle or low-RoF auto. Optic sway is drastically less compared to what it used to be in early BF4, and if there are spread/recoil effects they don't seem to stop me from landing headshots.
If there is an LMG user trying to lock-down a long corridor using suppression alone, I'm going to absolutely shred him with headshots through his fire...although that may be something to do with the LMG user being forced to sit there exposed, while I can peek whenever I like. Maybe they can't aim too well and all the good players stick to ARs. Who knows.


And I tend to play maps where suppression is rather abundant :P

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22

Thursday, July 14th 2016, 11:55pm

@Miffyli

i think somoene here or somewhere else clearly visible has to carefully explain how spread mechanics work in bf1, people started to think that the smgs have 5(not.5) spread at the second shot because they don't understand how multipliers work, it's quite bad how blind can people be.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

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ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

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23

Friday, July 15th 2016, 12:06am

What Suppression is
So where's my might stacks in BF1?


The bipod increases DPS (comparable to what Might does to power)

I see you continue to draw invalid comparisons between Battlefield and MMORPGs where tank builds that can survive taking on 2-3 players attacking them exist :rolleyes:


I see you completely ignore the valid similarities: GW2: 50% of attacks deal less damage. Bf4: Attacks (shooting) deal less damage.

Clearly, we should punish players with weaker aiming skills by only having suppression affect them. Because obviously, the more talented players need assistance against already inferior players.
I think you misunderstood. I was talking about the current state of BF1 where a good player CAN (hopefully) return fire through suppression effects if they're good enough. Ideally suppression shouldn't even exist, but it does so I'm hoping it's not too intrusive (like late BF4).



You misunderstand, this is exactly what Darktan comments on. If suppression is counterable ("soft" effects that only affects your DPS if you are not countering them, which you can do with sway) then it is only usable against bad players. Which makes it an unreliable mechanic, and in high level play pointless.

If mechanics like suppression exist (functionally a damage debuff, mostly.) then they should be usable and relevant.
So can we agree that the best solution is for mechanics like suppression to simply not exist in shooters? It's pretty clear DICE have just been trying to force it into the game since 2011 and have utterly failed so far, seeing how they KEEP CHANGING IT.


Or you know, we can accept the mechanic and try to make it good and a positive addition to the game.

And how have they failed? Suppression has always done what it is designed for, what they keep tweaking is the specifics, with the intent of making it more intuitive.

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Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____
When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.


DICE pls

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting suggestions

Posts I should finish sometime:
Squad priority vehicle system (and anti stealing suggestion)
Scoring system flaws (and concept)
Battlefield definition
New helicopter idea
Suppression rework
Flow, immersion and fun in battlefield
Specializations: ideas and system rework
Gadget reworks and ideas
Why limited infinite ammo would be awesome
Other bitesize ideas



Miffyli

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24

Friday, July 15th 2016, 12:10am

@Miffyli

i think somoene here or somewhere else clearly visible has to carefully explain how spread mechanics work in bf1, people started to think that the smgs have 5(not.5) spread at the second shot because they don't understand how multipliers work, it's quite bad how blind can people be.

I guess I need to write out the details on "general info" section of BF1, currently only includes mechanics about spread/recoil decrease on bf4.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

NoctyrneSAGA

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25

Friday, July 15th 2016, 12:21am

Mind explaining how late BF4 Suppression is irrelevant?
I mean...maybe it isn't, but lets just say I haven't felt it affect my performance whatsoever. I feel I can return fire accurately through max suppression with a DMR, sniper rifle or low-RoF auto. Optic sway is drastically less compared to what it used to be in early BF4, and if there are spread/recoil effects they don't seem to stop me from landing headshots.
If there is an LMG user trying to lock-down a long corridor using suppression alone, I'm going to absolutely shred him with headshots through his fire...although that may be something to do with the LMG user being forced to sit there exposed, while I can peek whenever I like. Maybe they can't aim too well and all the good players stick to ARs. Who knows.


And I tend to play maps where suppression is rather abundant :P


There is your answer. You are using weapons that do not suffer quite as badly from Suppression.

And if you are shooting down corridors where you are still very close to your enemy, SIPS increase isn't going to do much.

Suppression lowers effective range and burst length. It won't have much of an effect if the enemy is still in your effective range after reaching max Suppression.
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"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

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26

Friday, July 15th 2016, 1:24am

Both of these fall under positioning.


Right, I was actually agreeing with this. My point was that the two concepts are so closely related that it's silly to argue against one, but not the other.
Who Enjoys, Wins

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27

Monday, July 18th 2016, 5:40am

So, if I am understanding all the information here correctly... Madsen MG for offensive styles and Benet-Mercie bipod for Defense? In my opinion, those two seem to cover everything for (support) gunplay in this game's current state (barring hi-capacity bipod spam) I dislike the current lack of heavy (4-5 shot) guns. I honestly expected the B-M to fill that role, given it is much slower and all LMGs are 5-6. tsk tsk.
Been waiting for that TACHANKA BUFF for much longer than BF1.

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28

Monday, July 18th 2016, 2:07pm

So, if I am understanding all the information here correctly... Madsen MG for offensive styles and Benet-Mercie bipod for Defense? In my opinion, those two seem to cover everything for (support) gunplay in this game's current state (barring hi-capacity bipod spam) I dislike the current lack of heavy (4-5 shot) guns. I honestly expected the B-M to fill that role, given it is much slower and all LMGs are 5-6. tsk tsk.

yup, so i used them, and so they worked, we'd need more variety with the lmg class.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif




29

Saturday, July 23rd 2016, 7:04am


I haven't felt it affect my performance whatsoever. I feel I can return fire accurately through max suppression with a DMR, sniper rifle


I want some of what you're smoking.

Late BF4 suppression = base spread. But only for weapons that need accuracy, the BASR. Retarded. Thrown out after it was deemed shit back in BF3.... and returning in BF4 and BF1 because dice can't think of a smart way to do it yet.

NoctyrneSAGA

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30

Saturday, July 23rd 2016, 7:14am

Late BF4 suppression = base spread. But only for weapons that need accuracy, the BASR. Retarded. Thrown out after it was deemed shit back in BF3.... and returning in BF4 and BF1 because dice can't think of a smart way to do it yet.


Because a weapon that does not experience the effects of spread increase per shot or recoil only has base spread as a way to cut down effective ranges.

It never left completely either.

Rocket Launchers in BF4 for the longest time used base spread because they are also unaffected by recoil or SIPS.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.