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  • "tehmoriz" started this thread

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11

Thursday, July 7th 2016, 9:56am

How are they fucked? I am not in the alpha so that's why i am asking.


a lot of them are kinda useless, and all of them suffer from derpy DICE physics.

for example, the heavy tank and landship are both completely combat ineffective. neither of them have turrets, and neither have the option for the driver to view behind them. this makes driving them with any precision impossible, since they can't reverse properly.

like all previous battlefield games, tanks can barely drive uphill, due to using the same faulty physics engine and the same faulty hack that they devised to compensate. this is even worse for the heavy tank and landship, because they already have really shitty engine power. if you park them on an incline, they completely lose the ability to turn, making them utterly useless, because they have to be able to turn, since they don't have turrets, and turning is the only way for them to bring their guns to bear on targets outside of very restrictive angles.

you'll probably start seeing people complain that the light tank is overpowered; ignore them. the light tank is perceived as being overpowered, because it is the only armor vehicle capable of being combat effective, and thus have an effect on the field, and thus people notice them. those people would say that the heavy tank and landship are balanced, purely because they are complete non-factors and thus nobody notices them.

these are just some of the things wrong with vehicles in BF1 atm. we're working on a more comprehensive post, which should shed more light on the issues.

VincentNZ

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Thursday, July 7th 2016, 10:41am

Is this stuff likely to be fixed?

I thought so from the footage seen so far that the light vehicles have a great mobility advantage. However from some of the more "polished" videos, it looked as if the landship was indeed slower, but not totally immobile as in your video. What exactly do you mean by landships having no turrets? Do you mean that you need two people to operate the thing decently, or is there something wrong with the side turrets so far? The landship also is the Mark IV, right? And the heavy tank the A7V? Do they behave in the same way, i.e. is there one significantly more capable than the other (similar to the DV-15 better than the RCB in BF4 before)?

C0llis

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Thursday, July 7th 2016, 10:45am

these are just some of the things wrong with vehicles in BF1 atm. we're working on a more comprehensive post, which should shed more light on the issues.
Thank you, I'm looking forward to reading it.

This is worrying, I was hoping we would be getting better vehicle physics in BF1. I recall that there was some talk about DICE LA looking into it during CTE and thought that there would have been some progress by now.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

  • "tehmoriz" started this thread

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14

Thursday, July 7th 2016, 11:01am

Is this stuff likely to be fixed?

I thought so from the footage seen so far that the light vehicles have a great mobility advantage. However from some of the more "polished" videos, it looked as if the landship was indeed slower, but not totally immobile as in your video. What exactly do you mean by landships having no turrets? Do you mean that you need two people to operate the thing decently, or is there something wrong with the side turrets so far? The landship also is the Mark IV, right? And the heavy tank the A7V? Do they behave in the same way, i.e. is there one significantly more capable than the other (similar to the DV-15 better than the RCB in BF4 before)?


@C0llis

now that we have people on the inside, we have higher chance of getting these things fixed. but since these are deep seated issues that have persisted through numerous battlefield titles, i'm not exactly holding my breath.

as for the landship (and heavy tank) not having turrets: neither of them have free-spinning turrets, meaning that their cannons cannot freely rotate 360 degrees. the heavy tank has a cannon mounted on the front, with approximately 160 degrees of turning angle. the landship has two cannons mounted on either side, each of which can turn about 100 degrees, and can either face straight forward to just past perpendicular to the tank body. the driver doesn't have a cannon, but has a (mostly useless) machine gun.

this means that neither the heavy tank and the landship can effectively engage targets behind them. if you get a flank and score a hit on the treads and/or engine, the tank is completely fucked, since they literally cannot bring their main cannons around to fire back at you.

the machineguns on the landship and heavy tank are also both useless, because they both have high base spread and negative spread increase, but also overheating. this means that you can't burst fire for accuracy due to the spread mechanics, and you can't long burst because of overheating. the end result is that the guns have effective ranges of about 15 meters.

C0llis

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Thursday, July 7th 2016, 11:20am

From what I've seen most tanks in BF1 had machineguns all over to cover all angles. Maybe some system where players can aim in 360 degrees around the tank and where just the machinegun(s) that are closest to the point of aim fires could work? It would solve both the vision and the defense problem, assuming the LMGs were buffed. I agree that vehicle mounted LMGs shouldn't have the "settle in" mechanic.

OFC something needs to be done about traction and mobility too.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

  • "tehmoriz" started this thread

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16

Thursday, July 7th 2016, 11:34am

From what I've seen most tanks in BF1 had machineguns all over to cover all angles. Maybe some system where players can aim in 360 degrees around the tank and where just the machinegun(s) that are closest to the point of aim fires could work? It would solve both the vision and the defense problem, assuming the LMGs were buffed. I agree that vehicle mounted LMGs shouldn't have the "settle in" mechanic.

OFC something needs to be done about traction and mobility too.


only the heavy tank has machine guns coming out of everywhere; the light tank has only one seat (driver), and the landship only has three (driver, two side cannons).

C0llis

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Thursday, July 7th 2016, 11:52am

From what I've seen most tanks in BF1 had machineguns all over to cover all angles. Maybe some system where players can aim in 360 degrees around the tank and where just the machinegun(s) that are closest to the point of aim fires could work? It would solve both the vision and the defense problem, assuming the LMGs were buffed. I agree that vehicle mounted LMGs shouldn't have the "settle in" mechanic.

OFC something needs to be done about traction and mobility too.


only the heavy tank has machine guns coming out of everywhere; the light tank has only one seat (driver), and the landship only has three (driver, two side cannons).
I meant that it should be possible to "fake" a pintle mounted mg with 360 cover by treating all gun ports/MGs on the heavier tanks as a single gun, allowing the player player (driver?) to look and shoot all around the tank.


If some of the tanks in the game didn't have gunports and MGs all over them IRL it would be an acceptable creative liberty to add them in in-game. It wouldn't be any more realism-breaking than slapping an Arena APS on every vehicle in BF4.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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Thursday, July 7th 2016, 12:01pm

The Mark V could be fixed by allowing 180 degree turret rotation( it think ). It wouldnt make any sense from an authenticity perspective but it would from a gameplay perspective, which is all i care about.

Or a higher disable threeshold so it could do a 180 after getting ambushed.

VincentNZ

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Thursday, July 7th 2016, 3:19pm

I just watched some videos of official youtuber footage, which looked way more polished than anything I've seen from the alpha including vehicle physics. So that is that at least.

It brought up a couple of points about balance though especially concerning vehicles.

So right now only the Assault can deal damage to the vehicles apart from this K-bullet of the scout (how much damage does that do anyway?) The AT grenade is obviously a close quarter gadget with very limited range. And you have to use the bipod to deal damage, too. What kind of damage does each of the counters do?

So basically the Assault is very versatile right now in being anti-vehicle and anti-infantry but has no real teamwork gadgets, right? The ammo for the two counters seem to be very limited, 3 grenades and 4 rocket shots? At the same time I see tanks having canister shells as well as AP rounds with high splash damage. The effectiveness of tanks seems to increase drastically the further away from the target they are, as AT grenades are not an issue and the rocket gun needs time to setup unlike the RPGs in BF4, which does seem a bit unconvenient, really. The tanks, although having more drop than before do not seem to lose too much effectiveness through distance.
In the end it all boils down to the maps though. If the tanks are forced to engage in CQ and on the flags or to close the distance, this might be a non-issue. But if we have maps like the recent additions to BF4 with little cover, but a lot of uneven terrain I see balance problems.

Also what is with the repair system, so you can repair your own vehicle from inside when you are a crewman? I guess you can not do anything while oyu do it? Can all crewmen do this regarldess of seat? Say the gunner is repairing, can the driver still drive and vice versa? How much time does it take? And the medic also has access to the wrench? Honestly I think this is a step back from the focused teamplay of previous BFs. No medic will not equip the first aid kit and then deciding on whether you revive or repair is not a good idea. Repair monkey never was a very glamourous job to begin with, there is just an incentive less now. In Bf4 many had the torch equipped, by default or out of laziness, but people used it nevertheless. Fact is, ppeople will equip it if it helps themselves, and then use it on others as well. If that incentive is gone, teamplay will suffer.

There is a whole lot of issues I see with the current limited gadget distribution, but this is likely for other threads.

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Thursday, July 7th 2016, 3:22pm

So right now only the Assault can deal damage to the vehicles apart from this K-bullet of the scout (how much damage does that do anyway?) The AT grenade is obviously a close quarter gadget with very limited range. And you have to use the bipod to deal damage, too. What kind of damage does each of the counters do?

if you place down 2 mines and throw a light at grenade at a 1-man tank, you can do upwards of 40 damage, reload the grenade and mines, and you can finish it off.

also only the pilot class can repair from inside.
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