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11

Wednesday, June 22nd 2016, 7:20am

I've seen many unique and imaginative attempts to have snipers which can play long-range support roles. I have seen zero of them actually work.


It seems like actually making them good at ranges they should be good at, and not good at ranges they shouldn't be good at is working out pretty well so far. We'll have to wait for the closed Alpha to see proper gameplay where people are actually playing properly and know what they're doing though, for sniping as well as most other stuff.
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Nick 30075

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Wednesday, June 22nd 2016, 7:31am

I've seen many unique and imaginative attempts to have snipers which can play long-range support roles. I have seen zero of them actually work.


It seems like actually making them good at ranges they should be good at, and not good at ranges they shouldn't be good at is working out pretty well so far. We'll have to wait for the closed Alpha to see proper gameplay where people are actually playing properly and know what they're doing though, for sniping as well as most other stuff.

Alpha testers probably know in general what an "objective" is. I'd say that puts them in the upper 30% of Battlefield players. I think you're being far too optimistic. "Good at sniping" means people will play the class at all and I have yet to see a game in which snipers are forces for good for teamplay.

Maybe BF1 will do it. Maybe it will pull off the impossible. I'm a little too pragmatic to get my hopes up. As I see it, there does not currently exist a way to do snipers right that is not either (a) unfun to play against or (b) actually good for teamplay. In terms of recent games, Overwatch has shown this pretty damn well, Widowmaker has already been nerfed (and lots of people want her nerfed even further) and 3/4 of Hanzo players rarely use their sonar arrows.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Nick 30075" (Jun 22nd 2016, 7:41am)


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13

Wednesday, June 22nd 2016, 7:38am

Maybe DICE could actually label their axes when showing the damage and bullet-drop graphs.

Then people would see "Oh, it does 100% damage between X and Y!"

Makes it much more obvious which rifle they should use and where.
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Wednesday, June 22nd 2016, 8:09am

If someone can't figure this out they're not someone worth considering in gameplay/balance discussions.

i would dare say that is the same for people who can't customize a gun optimally if they want so, but that's just my opinion as to why i want as much customizationas possible(although to be honest, if everything was just cosmetic in bf4 i'd be fine with that too, i just like gun customization in general except for camos(most times)
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15

Wednesday, June 22nd 2016, 8:41am

i still won't preorder until i see gun customization though.


Ideally it's much simpler, without the infinite amount of terrible attachment combinations and such that BF4 had. Less options, less redundancy, and more specializing means more effective weapons overall. And significantly more effective blueberries.


It all sounds incredible except for one thing: ranged OHK snipers?


It's not the reverse damage model, it's the sweet-spot model, which means BAs are 2HK, then become 1HK within a certain range, then drop down to 2HK again. It varies from rifle to rifle, but seems to be roughly 80-150m on average. Longer range than that will be heavily discouraged by this, especially with bullets having drag now.


I must say that this sweet spot damage model sounds incredibly familiar to a bell curve style of damage model that I had brought up in a thread from waaaaaaaay back in the heat of bf4's popularity

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Reversing Sniper Damage Model
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Gummybear" (Jun 22nd 2016, 8:46am)


16

Wednesday, June 22nd 2016, 11:21am

I want to know what's up with sidearms.

If the game has bolt actions that will essentially get you killed outside of their sweet spot, scout class better get a really good pistol, or it's going to be another useless recon class that is easily defeated by closing the gap.... But if sidearms are all-class, that makes OP sidearms for everyone else.

I mean, the new model has a lot of potential. It will prevent long range camping, encourage mid-range support of teammates on the objective, provides points (in lieu of capture points) for headshots.... But what about close range?

It's easy to avoid long range engagements (take cover.)
It's easy to force close range engagements (use that cover to move closer)
Avoiding close range engagement essentially means running away.

Is the scout class intended to be the class that runs away from a fight?

I guess what I'm saying is that I see how they seem to intend the class to be used... but what is the intended counter for rushing players with CQB weapons?

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Wednesday, June 22nd 2016, 12:36pm

Similar to CSGO ?

Idk if I like that.
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Wednesday, June 22nd 2016, 12:38pm

I kinda thought CS(:GO) only had spread when moving and all other "deviation from crosshair" was its really weird implementation of recoil that is 100% counterable?

Btw: is the spread FSM only applicable while ADS or does it also affect hipfire?
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Jun 22nd 2016, 12:46pm)


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19

Wednesday, June 22nd 2016, 3:04pm

I kinda thought CS(:GO) only had spread when moving and all other "deviation from crosshair" was its really weird implementation of recoil that is 100% counterable?

Btw: is the spread FSM only applicable while ADS or does it also affect hipfire?


Weapons of CSGO have both base spread and spread increase. This base spread is different from weapon to weapon (AK is worse than the M4, etc), and there is spread increase. After the first, spread jumps to shit, but it doesn't change much after that. Hence, either 1rb or magdump.

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Wednesday, June 22nd 2016, 5:28pm

Alpha testers probably know in general what an "objective" is. I'd say that puts them in the upper 30% of Battlefield players.


Kinda hard to argue with Nick here. Obviously DICE will always feel reluctant to pull sniper's profession out of their main franchise even when considering how harmful some of them (ok, most of them) are to the concept of team play. It's just that it will be a different game, less rich, if they, however, decide to do so. But yes, I agree that this "new" sweet spot mechanic will attract more users to the class, it will get some minor getting-used-to, but in the end, having the ability to OHK is very appealing, when all you need to have is the appropriate range. Which, in turn, puts them slightly away from the action by default; whether it is going to be a good thing remains to be seen. If only there would be a restriction on the amount of snipers inside a squad, that would be swell. I hear one of the Bad Company games of the past had this limit in place and people who played it speak highly of this little concept.

Thumbs up for mr. Duck's new video. High quality stuff, man, my respects.